Historical Commission - September 2, 2026

Okay, it's 6 pm and uh this meeting of the Westport Historical Commission is now in session. Uh voting members present uh I guess Mark is not here. Um so uh voting members present, uh Katrina Strozik, Ward Mooney, Robert Schulie, Garrett Stuck, uh Bill Kendall, and Timothy Bryant.

Uh There are no minutes yet for the last meeting. So we'll consider those minutes um at the October meeting. Um first item on the agenda is treasures report but there is no treasures report this month.

So we move straight to applications for certificate of appropriateness 1913 Drift Road Russell Baker outdoor shower. Uh and this was continued from the August 5th meeting.

Is Russell Baker here?

Yes. Okay. So, you can just uh come to the podium.

Yeah.

Hello. How are you? Nice to put a face with a name. Garrett and Deborah. Nice to meet you. Uh yeah, as you can see, I think I may have maybe misworded it, but essentially would like to put uh really I guess a privacy fence off the to the side of my property to cover what will be an outdoor shower to rinse off at the beach, etc., Do you have any uh

some pictures? I have them on my computer.

Oh, you weren't. Sorry.

Yeah. So, so here's kind of the area, the existing area of the back of my property. Um you can see here the structure of the house and this is the garage. There really isn't a spot that would be convenient. It's looking up by the the patio. And so what I'd like to do in what I've rendered here is really just talk to the the the right hand side of the property looking from the street.

So this is straight on. It would be a privacy fence about 55 in uh wide about 84 in tall and then it would continue in like an L shape. This is it would be just one of those panels. This is just a um so it would conceal the shower head and obviously the shower.

So what what how does it differ from from this rendering?

Um this this would be this is probably uh each one of these panels is 55 in. So this is like double that. This isn't it's not in long on this side. This this square didn't know how to cut that out as rendering.

Um what are we seeing from the street?

This this is what you see from the street. So my drift is here straight on the property right this the same material post that matches so that's a rendering that's not what exists there's there's an existing shed there now or no there's nothing there what you provided is like a this is like a rendering like a rendering yeah just to just to kind of show you what it was like and it's exactly the same dimension as

the shower behind it or does it actually longer?

Right. It would be the dimension is 55 in wide by 55 in. So it's it's just about a little more narrow.

But but this this is this is the back of the house. So that's the back of the house. That's you don't see that now. That's the back and it will be off this side of it.

Right. So go 55 in here.

Um shingled.

It will be shingled. Yep. the heater single and trims the same house.

Exactly.

But you see you see it from drift road.

Correct.

You see the little bump out from it'll be over here. See how it bumps out?

Yeah.

It's not drawn on this one. It's on It's on that other one.

Yeah.

This the straight on. Yeah. And then from a 3/4 angle as you're post 1913. It's the one next to the red and white one. Yep.

So, the dimension on this wall fence is what?

55 in.

55 wide.

And how tall?

84 in tall.

84 in tall.

Is there a um fence um limitation on height?

Well, I mean, this isn't really fat.

It's a It's an outdoor shower. Yeah.

Um, I mean, my my first impression is is that it basically just looks stuck onto the side of the house. It doesn't it doesn't reflect any of the, you know, like there's this nice nice um trim line.

Yep.

At the at the base of the wall. I mean, seems to me that could be that could be some some Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. The drip edge.

Can you continue the trim along here, Garrett? You saying along here like this? or or or even to I mean to make it open below or something at least so so you could see you could see the foundation through it.

Sure.

So it's integrated. Yeah. No, 100%.

Actually, it's probably a better design to have that right underneath. So like design advice 8 in like gap underneath.

Yeah. It's one of my favorite houses in Westport. It's been beautifully restored shingle detailing which sometimes gets lost. Oh, never.

And this is this is such a great example when this house 25 years ago was had mold growing through the windows and was was really the shingles were Did you own it back then?

I did not. No, I did not.

It's a beautiful house.

A beautiful house. Now, what I would do with this, if I might is the fabulous Isaac Bell House in Newport has this lovely staircase on the back of it. And it has this lovely shaped kind of top like that. And then it has a top rail on it which is kind of curved in section like this. And then it has, you know, latis below it. But this in plan is a square and it's kind of

shaped like that and it can have like a little detail on it and maybe like a shamfer. It's a shingle style detail.

Okay.

So you could potentially use that.

Okay.

As a as a top. Make it out of pressuret treated lumber.

Y but shape it so it doesn't look like a fence post cuz this just looks like water.

Yeah. It looks like these these these right here.

Yeah. So if you did that it would feel sort of intentional. The question is what is the head height here that you need?

And um yeah, that's and this is why it's tough.

Yeah. So that would be there. This has to be raised a little. Obviously there's a slope. So this would be 80. The intent is 84 in which is plenty of head.

Yeah. But if you if you if you ran that around Y and then had these posts just sort of going through and you you shape the top of it like that and made that not so just ordinary. Right. So basically a full size you're going to have a top rail on it that may be you know this sort of shape.

Yep.

And then your shingles would be sort of in it like integrated in integrated into that.

And then it would look intentional right and not stuck on.

Yeah. And then I guess the question is whether you put some latis below it or keep it open or well actually the eyes of belt it's actually a lattice like that and that could be open or it could just be applied aac or something that you wouldn't see it. I didn't say that uh cedar. These could be painted posts that look like white. And this is a shower right?

It Yeah. Behind. Yeah. Exactly.

Yep. But you said that last section is is Yeah, this actually Yeah, my rendering it's only going to be like this and then this. So, it's not that much. It's only It's only Yeah, the two I guess the question is do you do something like this on it where you put this top rail shingle below it and then do you do like a lattice across the top of it like that? So, at least it feels Sorry.

Sure.

Yeah.

I mean, yeah, I'm I'm open to design ideas versus just Yeah. being solid.

I mean, yeah. I mean, if I if I was restoring a a shingled house, I'd probably probably put something like that when it felt sort of intentionally the Isaac. Yeah. Look it up because you can get the details from there.

Yeah.

I can't spell Isaac.

Isaac Dell.

It's on Belleview Avenue.

Oh, okay.

It's Mcken White.

Uh, you might need to go over there and look at it.

Yeah. No, take some pictures. Sorry. Yeah. Take it away from them. But yeah, I mean, this is what we're we'd be voting on. Uh this is the drawing right here.

Oh, okay.

Okay.

Pressure.

And and so what's what's the detail here?

That could be a lattice.

Uhhuh.

Uh either a square or a square lattice.

So there'd be a white trim.

White trim there going over it.

Pick this up. Follow the trim. And then and then a lattice or even open. It could be open, but I guess there'll be some sort of slab lattice plat platform in there.

You'll need that. And then above it could be a lattice on the top and this post could extend up a little bit.

And then if you flip it over, you know, would have this sort of decorative top rail on it and then perhaps a lattice on it.

Mhm. And you've drawn a square lice.

Yeah.

Up here. Also, we could be both square below there and square above the top. This is the profile of the post itself.

Yeah. So flat. Yeah. It wouldn't look like a an ordinary sort of garden fence post.

Mhm.

Well, let's include this.

My best example of a drawing, right? We have to include this with it.

We have to sign something here. Just like this.

Yeah.

And and and what would be the detail where the house meets the house? Uh, well, you'd have to probably Good question.

You because you have existing shingles, you could probably put in some standoff blocks, right? So, let me Sorry, can I just draw this? You might Sorry, but Sorry, Bill. I need to grab that. But if the shingles are doing this down the house, you may want to put a sort of a a sort of a a standoff block like this.

like that. But at different points down and then mount that mount your post to the standoff block.

Put a leg bolt through the face of this and then that's your cap and you have a little gap there so you don't have to mess all the shingles up.

Perfect. Perfect.

Problem solved.

It's not a very helpful looking drawing, is it?

Little We have little blocks right here.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. the shingles.

Exactly.

We should establish a company.

Are you building this yourself? You have a contract?

No, I have a contractor.

You have a contractor?

Okay.

Yeah.

Yeah. You should probably get it clearly defined what it is.

Yeah. You if you if you haven't sort of do a drawing. I mean, I'm happy to mark it up next time if you want. But it's such a beautiful house. It should have something intentional on it.

Sure. Sure. Yeah. No, I'm open to it.

Yeah. I agree. I love that the craftsmanship that exists already.

Oh yeah. So good.

Continuing.

Yeah. So so I think if if if we were to approve this, I I think we would require, you know, a drawing.

Wow.

Um before before you start construction, a drawing would then be, you know, approved by the monitors.

So send your builder over to Newport and have them photograph the uh the stair on the back of the house.

It's so beautiful. I mean that Yeah. I and I can do that.

Yeah. Yeah. Well, it's a great house to go look at tomorrow.

I mean, a shower, but subject to the nicest one in Westport.

Yeah.

Um, okay. So, this requires a public hearing. Um, public hearing is now open.

Are there any comments from the public?

I haven't seen yet.

Yes.

I'm biased. That sounds like a great improvement that's been made. I think you'll love it. I'm a spot.

Love it.

Uh, any other comments from the public?

Okay, public hearing is closed.

Um, any other comments or questions from the commission? I would prefer that something more formal be presented to the commission before we're voting on it. I think that the home is absolutely beautiful and the neighborhood put a lot of time and money into restoring it and I really appreciate what you just did in 4 minutes to suggest something better, more the home deserves that stewardship

and so I would feel more comfortable with something drawn that I could actually look at, agree with, comment on. I don't think that this I mean it seems like it's small enough that all the monitors could just handle it. In my opinion, it's not that small.

So, I I I appreciate your concern, but I mean there there is there is a a drawing there which I think has I mean it's it's crude but it but it has I think it has a lot of detail.

If we have a drawing as a condition of uh of you getting the certificate, then we could potentially approve it if we had enough detail between now and the you know conditional certificate. So if we voted on it tonight and we said yes, then you would be subject to that condition provided the drawing. Okay.

Yeah. Is this an architectural drawing to build from or just more of a detailed drawing something detailed? how how how you would build it.

Okay.

And um you know I I can look at it and and show you you need materials spec height and width and what the posts are going to look like really what Tim designed but also detailed out so your build can actually I mean I I'm not going to do the drawing but I can mark it up and comment on it.

Yeah, we could have Tim be one of the monitors.

Yeah, I'm happy to help you. Okay, you can do that.

Does that any question? No.

No. But that's okay. That's just my opinion.

Agreed.

All right.

Other other comments?

No.

Anybody care to make a motion?

Motion to approve. I I make a motion to approve subject to receiving the drawing that will detail out the actual when will we receive these drawings?

Yeah, I I I think at our next meeting if I could if I could suggest um maybe the thing to say would be um that the um commission approves the construction of a outdoor shower along the lines of the drawing suggested by Tim. Um, and the drawing must be approved by Tim and the other monitor before construction begins.

But the certificate would be issued with that note.

The certificate would be issued with Okay. All right. I second that.

Oh, I wasn't making suggesting a motion. One might Okay. Well, I I will.

So, I'll make your motion. Can I do that?

You can do that.

Okay. Um, let's do a roll call vote.

Timothy Bryan I.

William Kendall I. Garrett Stuck I.

Deborah Chief I.

Ward Mooney. I Katrina Strozik. Nay.

Okay. You are approved.

Thank you.

Um, so Timothy will be one of the auditors. Uh, if you say nay. Who would like to be?

I did. I said no.

I'll be.

Okay. Timothy and Deborah monitors. Um so uh you'll have to provide a a a drawing of what what you're going to build and um once that drawing is provided the monitors will uh sign off on it and at that point you can format the email. Okay. Or do I have to present at the next meeting or how would you prefer email?

Email it and then I can make some should get that copy. Um Maria, there's a copier in here, right? Can you start?

Why don't we get copies of what these drawings are and then we'll keep a copy and have the original.

Yep.

Cuz I want you to have this go forward with your contractor.

There's a lot of detail on both pages.

So, okay.

And we had copies made next door here.

Perfect.

And we should sign And we should sign the the design, right?

There was also something in the back.

There was something in the back.

I think this one probably uh get the uh homeowner's signature or at least initials in the background.

Uh well, yeah, right there in the blue sky or the grass, whatever.

Uh yeah, go ahead.

anywhere we can and then also on the back more detail on the blocks.

We should get the original.

Any others? Is that it?

No. Well, these are just the Oh, this will just put these all together as a set and I'm going to give you a copy of you wait for the copies.

There's a copy machine right here. I think I can do it right now.

Thank you so much.

Thank you. Appreciate it.

That's a printer. I'm going to Can you work that as a copy? Yeah, let's just print. Y Okay, we'll just take a minute until Maria is finished with that.

Yeah, here it is.

These are the original pictures which didn't have anything like

Do you have a picture of the one in Newport?

I do. I can email that when I get back.

Yeah. Okay.

Yeah. Be helpful.

Yeah. No, I I can I can I I can I can send it all to Wonderful.

Um I can make it work for you. Um, we'll keep the originals and we'll take the copies.

Perfect. Thank you.

We need to sign this.

Well, I can I can do a sketch.

Excellent. Easy. Wonderful. Thank you so much. Appreciate it. My pleasure.

of quite official. So I bring a pen next time.

Just one or all of them.

Just one.

The top one is fine. Keep them all together.

Perfect. Thank you.

Okay. Next item item of business is 2015 Main Road ANC realy trust uh construct pool complex. And this is continue from the August 5th meeting.

And we have um bunch of drawings here um that we could u maybe circulate a few of these copies to the to the public.

You all we've all copied. And Jeff, there's an extra here if you want to use this one, too.

You're welcome.

Okay. And who's making the presentation tonight?

I will be making the presentation.

Okay. Would you state your name for the record?

My name is Jeffrey Wade, 2034 Main Road in Westport.

Thank you all for the opportunity to present uh following the last meeting.

Um, as you may remember, I kind of stepped up and tried to look at things and ask questions and and from that I um went to the owner and asked if he would uh like help on um massaging the uh the design so that it would be more acceptable to uh to the commission and to the neighbors. So I met with um many people.

Thank you.

I met with many people uh and to try to get uh feedback more feedback than than we received at the uh at the actual meeting. I met with John Morardi. Um also met with Sean and Rob and and others too. uh that information was really invaluable because it uh it gave me I was not part of this whole thing until till now and or the past couple of weeks I should say. So it gave

me uh more insight into uh um how the commission um felt about it, how the owners felt about it, how the neighborhood felt about it. And I'm part of the neighborhood too, just to for the record.

So what I did was um we we first looked at it. I came up with a design um and then uh sort of brought that around to the different people to try to get their feedback and from that we came to a with the owner and mostly with John we came to an agreement as to what um what we were going to present and we went to a uh architect in the Boston area CBT and

they were gracious enough to do some 3D modeling for us. So, we have some pictures today as you have in front of you too.

So,

so where we were before was there was a at the last meeting I should say there was a um stone uh wall around the pool also a fence around the pool. There was a stone wall between the pool and the upper terrace and um the stairway was a a stone or concrete stairway on the south side and also one in the middle um on the west side and it was uh um we wanted to

try to clean that up. So, as you can see, um this is the wall that runs across most of the property.

Um and it's 2 and 1/2 ft high.

And behind that will be the pool um terrace, the pool and terrace.

You come on over and instead of putting stone in here, we've wrapped it with uh shingles, uh cedar shingles and white trim to match the building itself. So instead of having layers of stone after stone and getting back and sort of seeing it all in the same plane when you're back farther in the water, uh this breaks it up a little bit and starts to take the terrace and bringing that more into the vocabulary of the

house and the feel of the house and it's part of that. And then this stone wall is really, you know, in Westport we have stone walls going, you know, down to the water, but we also have stone walls sectioning off different areas. And that traditionally has been for um livestock or well mostly livestock and then later on play areas for kids so you can corral them. I have few boyfriends out there.

Um, so that's what's reminiscent about this, that it's that it's trying to stay in that vocabulary. This wall is in fact the same size as the wall, same height as the wall um to the south of the property. The one on the north is actually much higher. It goes up to 5T something at one point. So, um, we didn't we didn't want to do that. We wanted to keep it down lower.

So, that's from the grade. It's going to be regraded also so that it looks a little bit more flowing down rather than than have your on the um on the northern side there's a uh septic area and you get the peripheral bump. So we're going to try to level some of that out and bring it right across and blend it in so that it looks more like a like a dart

flowing down to the water which I think is more appropriate.

And then and then you'll get you'll also see up in here the um the cedar shingles. It's four and a half ft high.

That has not changed. So 4 and 1/2 ft is about this high. And then you have a railing system on top of that which will be a wood post and a wood rail along the top uh with cables going through it. And the posts will be um either mahogany or uh cedar. They both weather very similarly in this weather. Um so that will start to blend in and out of of

focus. Okay. As opposed to making that a white fence up there, which I think would just draw too much attention.

There's if you go if you're at the point and you look across um the harbor over to that threetory house, they do the white posts and rail and it really stands out. Now, it may be appropriate for that house, but I didn't feel it was appropriate for this house. So, that's why we have that.

The uh just got to find a place where I'm not standing in front of Sorry.

This is the view from the vantage point that is about at the first floor level of the neighbor to the south to the north I'm sorry to the north and you'll see that you can see that wall going across and and then the uh cedar and this this part right here just to let you know is um the cool Instead of having this big huge monstrous thing that's like that, we try

to bring it more into a shed style into the fabric of the house.

The next view is from down at the water side standing at eye level down at the bottom.

Oh sorry.

I'll show that one to you, too.

You can stand here. I think we've got the reds.

So, so that was the first one.

This is the view from the um approximately the first floor of the neighbor to the north.

And this is a view standing down at the base of the uh property and looking up.

Now

this is the terrace, the upper terrace right here.

Not changed.

We have not changed the size of that compared to last week. And this is the size of the terrace. Um the lower terrace. One thing with the lower terrace, what I did was instead of having it cool down on this side, I weighted it.

Oh, and I actually got a big side. Now, don't ask me how I did that.

You touch.

I first shrank the pool. It's 20 foot by approximately 35 ft.

There's no longer a separate standing spa.

The spa is interro with the pool, same level. The water, how that works is that they'll heat up the water and when it overflows and and and goes into the pool and you get that reheating for that. Um, but that's that sort of minimizes the impact. Um, and if we'll also have there's not a fence around this as you can see. We will have a stretch um system where there's a a stretch fabric

that will be brought across and it's it's designed to actually take a human weight on there. You literally walk across it and they show that in their in their um advertisements you can do that.

So that that takes care of that. You don't have to have a have the fence. Now the uh the upper terrace, the interesting thing there is this dark line right here was the old terrace. It's a grass terrace, but it was the old terrace that they had. And that's at 17 ft, you know, above the main level. So 4 and 1/2 ft. Let's forget about that. Sorry. 4 and 1/2 ft

above the lower terrace. Okay. And so that's the way it is. This is the size of the new terrace. So it's basically the same size. We took a little bit from here and put it over on that end. So it's not any larger than what was present what was there originally even before he bought the place.

So on the upper terrace he'll have a railing going around and going around here and then coming across here. this area right here. He's restoring his uh existing uh landing right outside the doors as you go out. There's one step down and then there's two more steps down to get to the terrace. So that's that takes you um one and uh 3/4 ft down from the from the house down to the upper terrace. So

he's restoring that. And there's there's actually little glass panels in there um cuz you have to have borrowed light coming down. He has light wells and it gives light down into the um basement level for each of the rooms down there.

So that's just going to be restored. Um you have a uh a photo of that too. Did you bring that?

Oh yeah, I'll show you that. But that that wouldn't be visible from public won't be just the greenhouse right here. Um it's extremely public. It's being it'll be torn down. Um the actual uh floor of it is down below grade and it will it does right now have steps coming up and that'll all remain. Um but the deck will be put out there. We've widened the deck a little bit, maybe a foot or so. It

used to come in right there. We want to line it up with the house. So, it's um it's more in keeping with vernacular of the house. So, not a big thing over there. One thing on this wall, this this is a stone wall here. And that's stone wall I talk about. This is a stone wall here. We're stopping a stone wall right at the stair. And what that will do is it will

I think it looks better.

We don't show it here because it's see where do I have that?

It's in the elevation site elevation.

We're stopping.

So um we're stopping it right here.

And now bringing it all the way back.

And that allows us to bring down the stair posts and and the lattice, square lattice, also um cedar. That'll be seared. And there'll be a door, double door right there. That will be the double door. There's no extra part of it, but he wants a little storage underneath the uh um stairway, which is fine. So those doors will just come out and close and it'll appear as though it's just a screen. That's that's the design.

Um so so that's that's stone wall stops right there just to let you know.

And then if it's no stone wall then what is there?

Okay just coming down here and across there will all be it's just underneath the stairway.

You have here the platform and it's also Don't forget to mention the removal of this two.

Sorry.

Don't forget to mention this.

It sounded like the microphone.

I think that was me last week.

The other thing we did was, and I'll show you the picture, too, but I'll show you the plan first.

This landing used to go around here and then up a couple steps and across here and and it was um had three windows and that's the a bedroom right in here. So there's there was no access there and it also looked extremely ugly. So what we did is we took that out.

We cleaned it up.

We tore it all out.

So now that this whole part of the building is very clean and the light can get down into the basement and uh um I think it's it breaks up the horizontal a lot.

Yeah, it it it stuck out like a sore thumb and it was a sore thumb.

So now let's see. Hold on.

So again, just to reiterate, 2 and 1/2 ft up for the lower terrace, 4 and 1/2 ft up for the upper terrace, 1 and 3/4 ft up to the house that was existing. And this right in here is broken up. This is all shingles there, too. And it's also broken up by a stairway and railing system. It's going to be, I think, quite nice actually.

Jeeoff, what what are those um three bays to the right of the Yeah. So, that's the uh um the doors behind the uh um greenhouse that that are staying. That's all existing. We're just taking off the curved glass once the glass is gone.

And we'll then we'll probably have I think what we're showing here is a couple of posts and trying to break down the scale a little bit and support everything. So, are those open bays then? Are they just open or they're sliding glass doors?

Okay.

Well, there's two sliding glass doors and one fixed glass window. So, this rendering looks like they're just open days.

Yeah. No, this is this is a if you look really closely, you see a vertical million in the middle of it. That's a sliding door. The next one sticks and the third one is sliding.

Right.

Okay.

So, this is an aerial view again.

Your stairway up from over here and then back down.

You have your lower terrace, you have your upper terrace, you have your pool house, and you have a very clean end of your building. Yeah.

And Jeff, you said the stone wall will end at the first set of stairs, right?

Yeah. Kind of covering it up, right?

Got it.

Nice.

You have any questions?

Sorry, I didn't understand that last point. The stone wall is not put as it appears in the drawing.

See this stone wall coming up here?

It ends right here.

Okay.

From here to here.

It's just lattice on where they structure.

Got it.

Yeah.

And we're adding Yeah. Yeah. underneath.

That's for the access to the Yeah. You can see the two jams right there. They go down to the green.

Got it.

So, there'll be enough for him to get in there.

Got it.

Get that done.

Uh the lower terrace will be stone.

Um and the upper terrace will also be stone on the terrace itself, but that's neither here nor there, but you don't really see it. Can't really see it from public.

Now, the cedar shingles that are cladding the base of the main terrace, are those going to be grayed out or are they painted to match the house? what's on the house with the same which is a st I think it's a stain I don't know if it's stain stained or is it not stained it's all stain I think it's all stained so it's just not much different than it wasn't so it'll match just more protective

yeah right it'll just match it just matching right the make it look like the match yeah yeah it'll it'll match that so in the grilling is going to be not that big by half that size and go the other way because that's outside.

Oh, yeah.

It was over here. See, it was over here at one point. So, we took it out of the view from anybody over here and really anybody over there. So, it was here.

He's actually going to in the end put it in this corner and and then he's going to have Do you have that picture again?

I think you all have that picture from Ste, but I'm not positive. He is going to put a kind of a cover over it. This is a generic one.

It just it's a it's going to be white.

The the metal will be white and uh it has louvers on the top so that it can tamper down on the on the uh and this is uh over the cooking area.

Just the cooking area. So the dimension is it says 15, right?

Is that 15 deep?

What's that?

Is it 15 ft deep?

It says that there.

No, that has to be this is this is just a cover.

It's just over the kitchen.

Yeah, just over the kitchen. This is a a catalog cut. So that's just a sample of what the materials look Yeah, they all looks very similar from our supply.

Can you um mark on that what the actual dimensions are of the little?

Yeah, we we we will. Yeah.

So, the the cooking the grilling station, the dimensions of that are approximately.

Yeah. But the new dimensions approximately uh less than 8 ft, which is one of those less than 8 ft. And and as it's drawn, that's a See, one section of that is 8 ft. Okay. one section, not three, right?

One section turned horizontally to cover the cooking area.

And and it's going to come up to the soft of the house so that it'll Yeah, yeah, it'll be in in scale with that. So attached to the set or no, just freestanding near the house.

Yeah, it's it's it's right in front of this landing right here.

So back in there.

All right. So just trying.

And you said it's freestanding, right?

Jeff.

Yeah, there's a big one section.

Jeff could Jeff, you said it was freestanding, right?

Yeah. So that's like you're getting an umbrella.

Yeah. Yeah, basically.

What color is that?

White.

I think that'll go away mostly.

So, tuck in right in there. Is that tuck in the corner?

Um, you want to see it on a different You want to see it on this perspective? I think you would just be seeing a corner of it.

You see it there.

Uh, no. You probably Okay. So, for reference, it's that center window that can only be seen from there.

Mhm.

But remember, this is a point of view from one point, right?

So, um, so if you go back to the plan, they can see basically things within here. So, so long as it's kept back in here, you're you're set. I mean, at least you won't see it. Not that that's a issue because as Gina said it's a freestanding furniture piece. So basically I'm just noticing there's a there's a door there.

The door steps down.

This is a door here and that's a door there. And that's a window here. And there's a door to a little little anti room there.

And the door swings in. So it's not going to swing out to the patio there.

Right.

I believe it's like an in swing. Yeah.

Swing it.

Yeah.

Uh I'd like to get some comments from the public. So, um public hearing is now open. Other comments from the public.

John, thank you. Just John 1933 main road and I'm one of the interveners. uh when Jess stepped up to try to help get something after the discussion last time about developing the model. We asked CBT to help us uh they have great capabilities and we were doing this in this crush of time. So like the reason that the kitchen isn't in exactly the right place and we can make all of the modifications that you

want. sent the guy that did it, Ed was a principal at CBT, a note saying, "I've heard some background noise that I'd like to see some dimensions that we can all get and we can develop and we can scale off of things, but that are not obvious to the general public." Um, so I asked Mitch, can you put some dimensions on some of this stuff? So, the the hope was that as interveners, we feel as if

this rendition is in complete compliance with what we had agreed to not further intervene with. And in fact, candidly, it's a much better ultimate solution than where we were. So we we support this and that or I at least support this. I can't speak to everything. They can all get up and speak if they'd like the if there are dimensions needed or and there was some comments for instance

on I think Kim made a comment about the quality of the stone wall and I think we understand what you're trying to achieve. We think it can be achieved uh uh and particularly now that we've made it a two and a half foot above grade wall and not a seven or eight foot which we would all be concerned about tying it back and how does that how artificial does that look when you tie it to a

wall. We think all of that's achievable but I've asked Jeff to say if there were specific conditions that you needed to move this forward we need to see this.

We need to see this. We need to see this. This is a big project that needs to be first of all cleaned up and get stuff out of there and get started. So, similarly to what you just did, which is we can move forward, but we need this, this, and this. We'd love to see as interveners a progress. That's and that's really all I have to say. I'm happy with what how Jeff helped us out.

Thanks.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Yes. Would you mind coming up to the lectern and just state your name?

Jill. I'm at 16 Valentine Lane. I'm just trying to find out the depth of the pool.

Uh, we won't know until there's a pool built on top of where it is now. It's almost done. That has to come out.

There's veins of ledge running through the property. And if there's ledge there, I'll have to reassess a if there's going to be a pool and then b what the depth will be.

Can I just add to that quick on? So if you decide this light it's too difficult to get the lake out to get to a reasonable pool depth, would that just become an additional patio?

Yeah.

I think that's that's what I think what's in people's minds is if that doesn't happen, what does happen?

And that's we're thinking that we're I mean we haven't done any excavation, but um by looking at what's there right now and uh we're thinking that it's going to be we're shooting for four to six feet someplace around there. So, uh, you know, there's not there's not a diving board. There's not a tower that is going to be there or anything like that. So, it's going to be all, you know, right

level with the with the floor. So, uh, with the with the terrace itself, but that's what we're hoping for. And there's many ways to do that. And and I think that you know the the ins and outs of how you um uh deal with uh uh excavation um is really through the building department and uh um you know with them and and and figuring out you know what's acceptable, what's not acceptable for methodologies. There's

many methodologies to get rock out of there without necessarily what all of us would say is that's a means and methods thing.

Yes. uh architects don't want to take responsibility for telling the contractor how to do their work because they can't insure for it. Contractors are insured for it and the contractor method has to be approved by the building department as being a safe and reasonable method within the community in which doing the work. So there there are a lot of sections in place for this.

None of which we had talked about involved last night just so that everybody knows.

Other comments?

Amy Sanders, 1868 Main Road. I'm curious about the lighting plan. I haven't I know that was mentioned last time, but I'm just curious if you could comment on that, please. there.

The plans that you want to go through or there the plans that have were filed show underwater lighting, typical underwater lighting for the pool. Uh there's lights on the house now. Um we might upgrade the fixtures, but we're not looking to add any. Uh we might add some small uh LEDs for the steps just for safety purposes, but we don't really plan on adding lighting. I don't think we need it.

Typically lighting for stairways that you're talking about is it's all down light type stuff. So it doesn't shine out, it shines down.

Yeah. On the plan here, you have LED eye lights. Those are down lights.

Down lights.

Other comments from the public?

Yes.

Yeah.

Sally Hardy, 2019 Main Road. I've been looking at this for over three years now or three years this weekend. Um I'd like to know the square footage of the upper terrace.

dimensions under I there have been so many different versions of this I've lost track of the dimensions and the square footage because it looks like an awful lot of space to not have any outdoor lighting.

Oh Sally 1875. Is that Sally? This one right here. I don't know if you I don't know if you saw this for No, I have I haven't seen any of this.

This is all new to me.

There are the this the models I have seen. But no, I've been waiting and waiting and hoping to see some drawings for this new version and thought I would have an opportunity to see some of this before the meeting, but no, I haven't seen any of that.

So, um, what I was what I indicated before is before Rob even bought the place um, and before any excavation even started, this was the terrace right here.

Right.

That's the size of the terrace. And now this is the size of the Harris for the for this proposed project. It's the same square footage basically shooting this. You take this square here and that little ledge down there. It's about the same size. Uh Jeff, if you on this page here, um it says 1875 square ft.

That includes the stairs also.

So you're looking at 1875 square ft the way it's shown with the steps including the steps and the landing for the steps and that kind of thing.

So you can take off a couple hundred square feet if you just so it's probably 1,600 1675 includes here which is about 200 ft. I I'm just trying to visualize how that can exist at night with people out there with no light.

Well, it's been there for 20 years.

People were never out there.

Well, I mean, I've got a porch here.

I mean, I have a porch and a deck.

And I have an outdoor light up on a peak.

Yeah.

That looks down.

Yeah. in order to have any kind of light on the outside. I have the little lights along the lower part of the wall bordering floor, but it's pretty dark and I'm just trying to visualize this.

I have an overhead light on on a porch, but there's none of that here. And I I'm just curious about that.

There would be lights in the circle, but there's no circle, I thought.

But then there's that. There was and then there wasn't. So I don't know. Was there a pergola now?

That's what we just talked about. Yes.

Over in this one corner over here. You would not be able to see it from your house.

I thought the pergola was gone. No.

The pergola is a it's not this shown anywhere here.

I know.

So I mean it's very it's such an evolving process.

Very hard to get a clear grasp on at all.

But you said the the pergola is freestanding. It's not attached, right?

It's not attached to the house. That's good.

I think you're more of a trellis than a pergola. I think for the size you were talking about, I think it makes your pergola to be, you know, pretty good size structure as opposed to the coverage up over the cooking area.

Yeah. I mean, the one over at um Pantrips is is is huge compared to what's going here. This is 8t 5.

The dimension 8 by 8.

Yeah, per here is much larger than what it's going to be over here.

But I'm not trying to compare neighbors structures. I'm just trying to visualize what what this is because at the last meeting it was clearly stated there was no purple. So there there is a drawing there's a drawing floating around someone somewhere had triple terrace the triple um trellis but you're only use one section of that trip separate separate path.

Yes. Um, a long time ago there was a fur on south side that was drawn and dimensioned and lit. And in those documents there was concern that would result as far as the lighting by being little tiny down lights almost pin lights but the size of it didn't fit within the jeep. And then under all the negotiations that were going on with people, the purgl disappeared. And the last meeting was determined there would

be no perl. What I'm sensing and think I'm hearing is that if there is a something that looks like a per will be a piece of freestanding furniture, which which we all have the ability to put anything we want freestanding furniture any way we want on our property whether you like it or I like it. I think that's what I'm hearing. Is that is that the message? because I I want to be clear

because that has been one of the concerns is that particularly a lift per is concern that is a concern that's all I'm not I'm not trying to take a position what you said is correct is 100% correct the other thing I would like to point out is that in previous ones my memory of of I was not involved in it but I I think I saw something and that was over here exactly

now it's over here in the corner and it that was intentional to have the cooking area with this furniture that's not a pergola. There's a it's a cover and it's it's away from your view.

We did that on purpose for you and for you know Pam both because her view comes right across here and here. So this is going to be here.

So from from those vantage points, we don't believe that you'd be able to see it. But that was our intent.

Yeah. I would just say, I mean, leaving aside the merits of of the pergola, I would not consider a pergola that is wired to the house wiring to be a piece of furniture.

This isn't wired.

Well, lights on.

How are the lights work? Are they LED?

What do you have for lights?

Uh, we haven't selected the photo yet. I just used that as an example. They're all pretty much the same. But the thing is we wanted to maximize the outdoor spaces u because the views are really incredible from this house. So we wouldn't be out I want to see the water and if I have bright lights on I'm not going to be able to see the water. We won't be able to use the battery the way

we want to use it. And I mean I'm 63 years old. I'm not going to be out all night and I go to bed at 9:00 and get up at 4:30 5:30 in the morning every day.

So, and and you also stated that there are existing lights on a house.

There are existing lights on the house and we haven't seen them because we don't really when we're out there, you know, you and I several times and we didn't turn the lights on because we Anyways, other comments from the public?

Okay. If not, um then let's bring it back to the commission and hear comments from commissioners. So on this plug whe whether we're calling it a per or freestanding um trellis uh is it is it going to be lit or not lit? I don't understand that was referred to. We'll have lights in it but they won't be bright lights. They'll be small down lights onto the countertop. They're not going to be broadcast outside that area.

Okay. Okay. So, I think Garrett was getting at whether or not they're the these structures connected.

Yeah. I'm just I'm I'm not ready to accept that a peril is a piece of furniture.

Well, the house and that's I'm not talking about the merits of this particular perle. I'm just saying.

So, this is showing fans in the ceiling here, which are Yeah, we're not.

Okay. So, we need a bit more information on You can you can add Yeah.

anything. I agree. The garage is not a piece of furniture.

It's how is it bolted onto the deck?

Does it just sit there? And what's the purpose of the roof is open? Is there a shade?

There's a they they're veins.

I know. They move. Do you have a crank on them?

Yes.

Yeah. They're they're louvers.

They crank up. They crank and they tilt.

So, you know, brain it doesn't it water will get through it, but it it does Oh, a little bit.

They they it's actually pretty good. My son has one.

Yeah.

And uh they lock in place.

They they they have little troughs that catch the water and then and then it metal.

It's aluminum.

Aluminum.

Yeah, it's aluminum. And his he had it brown and he had a white.

It's a big white thing.

Uh but you know that's you you'll see what you'll see is four posts.

They're this big.

And then there's an equal uh piece going around the outside. Um four sides to tie it all together. And then these slats are hidden within that. You don't even see the slats.

But it's a it's what you're going to see is a rather it's going to look like a pergola and it's going to look like a permanent fixture. It won't look like a piece of furniture. It's it's got to and it can't just be freestanding. is going to be attached to the surface of the deck. Seen these before. I mean, they're useful. Uh question is, does the commission understand what that will do

to the appearance of the building uh distance?

So, so I think um I mean, we don't have a drawing of the pergola. You know, I don't think we can approve a pergola tonight, but I I don't want that to detract from the rest of the because there's a lot of I mean, there's some major changes here.

Yeah. I mean you can you can also put that in the condition that the pergola is not approved until submitted and then approved.

It's a wire to have to get a building permit anyway. So right yeah so so the commentary stone face retaining walls is that it is something that's made by loose stone as we sort of discussed or is that a truly These are sealed stones. So they're loose. So it's not So it it's not it really is a a stone retaining wall, not one with a concrete block back or concrete stem wall behind it. So

um the uh the pool uh um engineer will need to tell us whether and I don't believe they will need it whether they need any kind of a um structural wall around that since the pool is so far back and um so there's two options. One is if we decide to cut it off um because for some reason that's only, you know, for us to worry about. If we cut it off

at 2 and 1/2 ft or 2T, whatever it is, then then we'll build up a wall in front of it out of fieldstones. You'll see what you'll see is is a field stone wall just like every place else. If we decide that it's not needed, then we'll knock it down all the way down um right at the very beginning. and then you just build up the wall like you would have dirt

behind it. So, so in either case that's, you know, it's it doesn't the structural uh integrity of it will be um the determining factor, not anything aesthetic that you'd be concerned about and I understand yours and my conversation and how that all meets.

Yeah, that again is well it's I just wanted to double check whether the the the description here was following that intent of to have that be that way.

Uh yes.

Um just as a matter of comment, you can't put stress on the guy pool, right? So if the gun the gun I pulled has to be able to be formed and cured by itself without additional stresses to it. So now that there is a patio glue stone or something like that patio around that pool there's enough room around that pool to not have to build and it's not high enough firewall. So

the original request for a simply field built wall is possible now. It wasn't possible that he correct. It needed to be tied to something. It would not be safe and it needed that at that height.

It needed something to protect the guy from the load that was going to go onto the wall.

Now the guide would be completely self-supported. And once they pour it and cure it and after it's cured then they can build a fuel stone along the patio around that with whatever material they want or anything doesn't matter but it can be separate which I think was your original concern is it's almost impossible to have that look the same as the wall you can do it very expensive

I'm doing it in my house but you can I think we now have the opportunity to get that wall a lot easier today. Yeah, it's it's good. I going going down there and seeing the walls and also seeing that Dart with Stone were building some walls in the neighborhood. It seemed like if those are the the right people building the walls, then it looks just like the actual field walls. And uh it would be

completely undistinguishable from the sidewalls and the car general character of the area. And that, you know, it seemed like a plausible detail where it could be stacked up at the end. You could probably put some stem wall behind that supported the edge of the patio if you needed any kind of um concrete slab or whatever, but I'm apparently not going to use that. And then you just

build up that as an edge. I think it's a great solution and works very nicely. I think that the in general the scheme is a huge improvement. Uh I did have some concerns about the lighting. Uh I think the shingle wall around the upper terrace is great. the I don't know if you really need that corner post just to sort of define it or the corner trim the shingle could go around but in over

the white post at the very end.

Yeah, it just defines it from distance but it doesn't really matter. that's not structural as a as a Yeah. But I I think it it really really helps to separate it and the pool house is much better and the spa the automated cover is great and the it's very much in keeping with the character of the type of house that it is. Um I think the cable railings are really great in

trying to put any kind of railing on a deck is um as as pointed out if it was white it would be very very visible. So the cable railing is uh probably the best solution for this kind of thing.

There is no historicism per se except really the site walls and uh these are sort of pasture type divisions of the various other boundary walls. Uh it's completely in keeping with the neighborhood in my opinion. The pool house is now just a garden shed and uh uh the rest of it just seems to blend with the house. The removal of that deck off the bedroom area was great. That cleans up the elevation. Um my only

reservation is really the um this sort of element this pergola element is going to be quite distinct even though you know it's it's proposed to be small. Uh it's going to change the character of this at distance. Uh but you know if it's not really that visible maybe it's not an issue. Um I think the issue before when it was mixed into the high retaining walls and various everything else the old design.

Oh yeah we should just like reference point here.

It's a it's going to be something what this was half the size of that is going to be pretty visible as a white structure. And um you know I question whether or not it should be this aluminum thing with the louvers. Maybe it's um a different color or maybe it's made of wood.

Gray or something.

Gray. You know if it if I can get it in any color.

Yeah. I mean maybe that's the solution.

So if you if if you put a more white stuff up there, it's going to be very very visible. But if you've got the grayish stuff that's shingle colored, then you're not going to have that contrast, which is what you're going to see at that three-story building across the river there, which is sort of like what's that? A hotel. So, you know, that's all I think that's that would be my main reservation on whether or not

this would would be successful. But if you can get it in gray, then by all means, mostly you only ever see them as white. Yeah.

Betty Slade had a I was just asking is this clearly visible from a public way?

The pergola.

Yes.

Yes, it will be.

It was visible from the river.

Yeah. At least parts of it. Yeah.

Well, parts of it for sure. But it's a question.

You might see the top and if it was white, the reason we chose white, two reasons. One was the gutter line is white and and the trim behind it is white and making it the same height would basically and all the other pergolas that you can see in the river or what more houses have perglas than don't in that neighborhood.

Okay. Well, it's I mean I think you you'll have to come back to us with an actual design of a pergola. Um but but I think we can Yes, I was going to suggest that. I was going to say I think I think we owe you um as as a condition um a design for that and to show you.

Okay. Because because it isn't, you know, you will see it from certain areas.

Yes. Um and Jeff um the view from the public way now um that is the river and it's from the river from various sides from the river public and so we don't really know we're talking about just the per um if you get further back out in the river you hardly see it. So, we're talking about a closer on the river and then the angle is such that you would hardly see it anyway.

Is that correct?

Well, you know, take a look at this.

This one, this is taken from standing on the uh on the river's edge.

Well, on his land, so it's not in the water.

Okay, I see what you mean. Yeah. Okay.

So, you will see it.

That's the angle right there.

I don't want to deny that.

You will.

You definitely will see it. But if I guess I I I understand that, you know, my interpretation when you shared was it was freestanding, right? But I would assert that there are very large umbrellas that people purchase at Home Depot that are probably much bigger than this structure that you're talking about that we wouldn't have any purview over that wouldn't even come close to being as

um reasonable as what you're saying. So I I mean I I think that if we can get to a place where it the pergola is the design of the pergola is a condition right similar to what was just done with the the shower right like I think you get the idea and when we get there in the design we can you know look at different things or not we but monitors can look at different things

back and forth and you know get to where you need to be.

So so that condition probably should just include a lighting diagram as well.

Obviously, I mean, when we deal with things by the water on other projects, uh, you know, you have the sort of low light requirements. I don't know that's important to consider.

Yeah. I mean, there there is some I mean, there's lighting specified at some level. And yeah, but this rendering is so good, you could do one at night, too, you know.

I mean, you just turn the lights off in the rendering and put the lights in there. So it's already built in whatever Revit or something.

Yeah.

So you could you could do that and that, you know, could be an effective way to see if we're worried about what it looks like at night.

I mean, for most people, you have to look for it, right? We're looking at it because it's it's really under this microscope, right?

And we're looking at what we what I think we look at what what are the merits here is it's an incredible improvement. And um you know it's amazing what the comm what the sort of small group of people have done to improve it and listen and come back in a very short period of time with a very professional uh presentation which is easy to understand and uh is much more simplified. So I'm like yes this is

this is the way to do presentation.

So, Bill, do you have any any comments aside from the pergola comments about the the rest of the No, I I think that from our the last drawings that I saw included um the stone wall, but it also included a stone facing on the the main terrace, right? And that was bothersome because what you would see if you were at the river edge, you would look up and you would see two stone walls stacked up on

top of each other. So you would see this again an 8ft stone wall or something. So that is an improvement. And also the way the stairway is put over on the side because one of the drawings or many of the drawings and we've gone seen many drawings.

None of this quality though I must say uh with the stairway on that side works very well. So I'm I'm I'm really feel this is a the good a good solution to the problem right because the stairway were on you could see the side of the stairs so you much more visible.

The stairway was here at one time and now it's over here. So it it it makes us just flow nicely.

Now it feels like a deck.

Yeah. Whereas before it was trying to be two things, sort of a deck and a retaining wall, and it had stone detailing on it, which was not necessarily sympathetic to the neighborhood.

I think we've made a lot of progress and um I look forward to more progress and I think it's heading in the right direction.

Great, Patrina.

I think it's terrific. Really nice job.

I did too. really nice job.

Yeah, I think it's terrific, too. I mean, huge improvement. Um and uh I mean the the shingle the shingled wall instead of the stone wall, the the the um shed for the machinery. Uh what you've done with those lower doors is really great. I love the opening in the wall because it it sort of contributes to that sort of cascading effect that that that we have down here. And that's

a sort of a typical barway as well. And it's it's continued which is a really wonderful way to dis to um disguise the end of that. So it's not sort of the peninsula. It is now is like a war with two barways, one at one side and one at the other way.

Yeah.

I want to also comment when Mark Thompson was here last month he mentioned the horizontality. I think he mentioned when it was going straight across and eliminating that horizontal line here.

This gives you more of a vertical and breaks it up. And then the horizontal piece is in proportion to the rest of the house. So it looks a lot more proportional than what it had been. And it's a lot of nice textures without it being wall wall.

Yeah. Agreed. Agreed.

Bill and and Tim said this breaks it up and matches it to the house. So it it it just it's it's congruous with the neighborhood shingles and stone walls.

Yeah. It looks I think it looks great.

And from the river because you're low and the stone wall is up a couple of feet. You the uninitiated will not know there's a pool there. I mean, we all know because we've been dealing with this for 3 years and a lot of people have had a lot of comments about it. But if you were to come up the river on your boat, you would not know there's a pool there. And that's kind of what an

ingground pool looks like.

Yeah. Yeah. That's what that's what it would look like if it was an ingground pool. And I think you've achieved that. And if if you were doing a pool and you're only doing a deck, that's what the deck would look like.

The the cable railings are very if you break it into its components, um you know, it's the pool, you can't you can't really tell. You can't see it.

Obviously, you can you'll be able to tell if you start putting furniture and all sorts of things out there. Uh but but basically, it's very well disguised and yeah, uh I think it's a good solution. I mean, I don't I don't necessarily think it's a pool neighborhood, but I I get that that's what you desire and that's what you would like on your property, right? We have the biggest pool in the world just 10 steps away,

but and now people spend a lot of money to put in saltwater pools. Um, but I, you know, I I get it and I appreciate the work that you guys have all done to get to a place where it can be, you know, more acceptable for um the historic district.

I I agree. We've come a long way in the pool. The other key piece was um I don't know if Jeff was the one who came up with this, the hard cover over because that eliminated that 4 foot non-climbable fence which was going to be such an eyesore and draw your attention right to that pool.

This is now invisible.

So that was a great and I appreciate that you at the last meeting agreed to do that live here and I know that's a very expensive thing to take on. So Okay. So, um I'm I'm hearing lots of positive things from the commission. Um uh two reservations are that we don't have a design for pergola and and in fact for the um the growing station as as as you currently conceive it and

also we we don't have uh a precise enough lighting plan. And so, um, I think, uh, I mean, it seems like it would be possible to approve everything else about the plan, uh, and to require you to come back, uh, with detailed plans about, uh, the pergola and the lighting, um, and get our approval for that separately.

That would be a separate application or is it a condition that the monitors deal with or would you want to go back in front of the That would be a building permit for further as well. So, right.

So, so it's down the road a bit anyway.

Yeah. I I think that uh um what I would hope is that we would get we would get the uh approval to start and we will come back either to the um to the what's the word sorry getting old um the monitors uh we can work directly with them and if they feel that they need to bring it back to the whole group we're perfectly willing to do that because these items the

lighting one we want to get done, you know, so that you know what it is right away and and because if we start construction, we have to get wires to there right?

So, we don't want to stop that. The pergola is one that can go a little bit longer, but but we want to get that information to you. I personally, when you know, talking about a pergola, um I'm not comfortable with with just giving you a cut sheet. I want to actually take a look at it too because it's, you know, it's an important thing.

So, and show it to us in the Yeah, I think we can I think we can get Mitch to do that pictures.

But no, no, we can we can get Mitch.

Jeff, I think you said it perfectly that if the monitors feel at all uncomfortable with what they've been presented, they need to have the right to bring it back to the committee and say say this isn't what we bought into. And that that way you get the full flavor of everything right?

And we haven't got enough information.

We have Mitch draw it. We give them the right information. Well, don't you put it on the Nurse and then we can render it as part of this rendering and we can render it from we are missing really which we don't have and because I think you made a real conscious effort to make it disappear against the the top of the house and it doesn't look you can't see that from here. So we need that

rendering to be from a place that's 50 ft out of the water so that you can see it from her house her house and 50 ft out of the water and see what it looks like. Right.

Yeah. And I would I would suggest there are two different eve heights. So which eve are you going to try and hit?

I know.

And that's going to block your view from this if it's below the low one or it's going to hit the roof on the other one.

So that that's not sufficient to describe what you're going to end up.

That's why I said I want it.

Yeah. Yeah. No, that's good. That's good.

Thank you.

Okay. So um right so so reframe I mean is it sort of the sort of the same similar to what we did that we did with to do a conditional right so um uh so the motion could be um to approve the project um with the condition that the grilling station, pergola, an outdoor lighting plan would be presented to the monitors um before any construction is started on those items.

And the monitors uh would bring it to the full commission if they felt that that um it was beyond their authority or or their qualification.

Um, as far as the monikers, can we uh request that Tim be on one of the monitors?

I would request that too.

I would request that too.

Yeah. Yeah, that would be good. Okay, that's great.

Thank you.

You're not.

Okay.

Is there a frequency that you guys check in? Because I think that's going to be really important.

Well, we're supposed to be told as monitors when there's construction, when there's something to look at, when there's something that's part of the plan, you could see and make sure.

It sounds to me that John and Jeff are going to turn this around pretty liquidy split and we'll get it. So that is what I would suggest you do is just get it designed and we can but I mean not so much about the pergola the lighting plant or the grilling station but as soon as things begin right um things happen and so the role of the monitor on projects like this is very very

important because as designed isn't always as built because you run into stuff right and so I Like Tim, sometimes you aren't even around here because of your job. And so I just want to make sure that there is some kind of regular cadence. Having been a monitor, there are times when I am not told that things are supposed to happen and I find out about stuff afterwards and it makes the conversation

a lot more difficult and awkward. So I I think something this size that has been this challenging to get through. It's taken us 3 years to get here. I think it's really important that there's got to be there's got to be some kind of a a cadence or you know something that says I I feel like we have to formalize it a bit more because of what's happening here at least just for a period of time.

I agree. I think instead of it coming to it could come to the monitors in the interim, but I suggest that you do the design work um so we can say yes and the commission can say yes to it instead of leaving it in in in our hands.

I think Katrina's talking about after after it begins when it begins then it's going to be right.

Well, you you have a lot of concerned neighbors of butters, right? So they're going to be, you know, what what is the condition of the monitoring, right? Show up whenever we want invitation.

They're supposed to call us and we and we visit the site, but it's a construction site, so you have to have health and safety concerns and you can't just walk on the site without being shown.

I would give the monitors my contractor's contact information.

there's going to be somebody on the site all the time when you're doing work so that they can communicate because I travel a lot for work and if I'm not there I'm not necessarily so but they will so what I would suggest and John and I go through this all the time is a schedule um most we we always have a schedule um for construction so you know what's happening when and when it gets

modified you'll be notified on that too so I think that's on any project like this or any house project or anything like the one next to me um that that was done already. Um it it's very good for you guys to require a schedule and updates on that schedule on a regular basis so that you can make yourself available and if you can't then somebody else on the board can. Yeah.

Okay.

There's that. And then there's a question, are there any construction drawings for it?

And and will there be any shop drawings for anything like the pool itself or the deck because that has to be sort of drawn by somebody, right?

Oh, yeah. Civil engineer, right? So, we would want to see maybe the deck drawing.

Mhm.

You know, and isn't is Sorry, the deck.

Well, the the the whole I think the photographs. Yeah.

of the Well, the question is when in in construction and architecture, we usually have drawings that that describe what the work is going to be, whereas we have the renderings right now, but in order to determine, yeah, it's not really clear whether you're going to use construction drawings to build, right? So, obviously, um, as pretty as this is, uh, you can't build it from that. So there will be

drawings um made so that Rob will get a building permit and then that will be the the set that you'll see and then and then what will happen is that that things will be worked out in the field like you were saying they always happen and and if there's something that is important enough um and you'll know when it's there you'll be able to comment on it and see and if we change anything

obviously we have to come back to you.

Well, we've had that with um the Howland Hall project. We've had changes kitwise had to come to talk to us about those changes. So, that's a regular process.

So, we have in this package is a drawing that describes what is being proposed right here. This is something like this would go to the building department with dimensions on it and any structural calculations or information on the pool, etc. Uh so, we can get a building permit. That's what they'd like to see, I suppose. Right.

You can't quify once application from the building. They can't make any modification to the building the acceptance of the building inspector. I mean, even minor changes, you change the piece of reinforcing post building, there have to be inspections of these things. So, so there's a system in place to make sure that what's on those drawings happens. We didn't do a great job last time woring about that stuff.

We now know we need to do a great job worrying about that stuff. and you know that town's perspective and as it reflects on what you people want to see and yeah that's what I I'm just reiterating for the for the commission basically and what I would expect in being able to monitor monitor it and not have it be you know somebody just pointing and sketching.

Does that answer your question Katrina?

Yes it does.

Yeah. Good.

Okay. And I'm I mean I think that that your point is a more general point about how we you know how we interface with these projects.

No, certainly it is. But I think that um building an outdoor shower and saying, "Yeah, that doesn't work." And expecting someone to start over is much less costly than what you're undertaking.

And if something changes and there isn't a notification process and then all of a sudden it's not quite what we thought we thought we agreed to, right? I just I don't want us to get in that position, right? I think we are all moving forward in incredible good faith at this point and right everybody wants it to work and so I I think as long as we make sure

that we are on top of it we're available when you need us you you know you are available when you know we hear something and we'll just you know continue along those lines. Well, I think you can rest assured I don't want to waste any more money. So, it hasn't been a waste. Believe me, the difference between where you were versus here, it's awesome. So, could we um could we give you a deadline

for the uh for these uh for the pergola lighting and uh and drilling station plans?

So, speaking of schedules, well, I can't believe the monitors approved them. So, that might be down the road. Yeah, I think that that the pergola is down the road. Um the uh um and the lighting is not quite as far down the road, but down the road. So, the drawings will incorporate as much as we can and I think that the lighting should be in that um when you get your building permit because you need an

electrical um inspector approved. So, that'll be in there. So, you'll be able to see that. And and as far as a perglar goes, um that's something that I don't know the schedule, but yes, you will get it before anything's done to build.

Can I can I make a simple addition because we're going to run into this age problem.

Who's going to want to put in either conduit, you know, UF, we need a we need an approval that allows him to rough for lighting.

Yeah. You can't put in any lighting until the fixtures, the locations, and illuminire's description of them has been approved by you.

Correct.

You always have the right to run a table. I mean, he needs that right to do that to maintain the work process and not hold anything else up. But I think it's it's absolutely appropriate to say until you install a light fixture, you're not allowed to install a light fixture, wire a light fixture, um, switch. I mean, there a bunch of things that go, you know, dim. I mean, all of

those things that we could put to light pictures, it just can't happen until a lighting plan, which might include a a you know, it's very easy for lighting salesman out to show you the levels of lighting in various locations from a light fixture, right? We just did this in a in a gym.

We just couldn't quite get it right. So, we had to do the scientific very easy to do. and and then when you're comfortable that that is what you had in mind, then then you can put in the light fixtures that you approve and connect it up, you know, let's let's let us do the the pre-wiring or the or the necessary.

Yeah. And we don't really have any any say over that. I mean, you can put put in any conduits you want.

Yeah.

And the thing that's there now, there's spotlights all along the inside of that that L-shaped wall. Would you like to change to something less?

We would prefer not. I mean, if they're already there, there's nothing we can do about it. But but if Yeah. If you if you could improve that.

And the only reason only time I ever turned them on was there were if there was an animal outside.

Yeah.

It's literally the only time.

Well, there's things like color temperature, right? So, I've got neighbors that have LEDs and they're super bright.

Um, and you know, that's not necessarily appropriate.

All that will be taken into consider.

Yeah. Yeah.

And again, I want to be able to see the view. Yeah, I'm going to make it what whatever's there now, it's going to be better than what's there now.

Great.

Good.

Okay. So, uh I mean again, I think um I I think we could uh Do you want me to try to make a motion?

You want to try to make a motion? Yeah, please.

All right. So, I make a motion to approve what was presented this evening.

And we get to follow up on the design for the pergola with the exception of the pergola, the lighting plan, which would include fixtures, color, lights, everything but the rough, the grilling station. Um, and the intent would be that you would go to the monitors first and if the monitors decide that they're comfortable making the approval, they are allowed to do that. But if they would prefer to bring it back to the

commission, they may bring it back to the commission for further discussion.

Is there a second?

Second.

Second.

Okay, let's do a roll call vote.

Timothy Bryan. I William Kendall. I stuck. I Deborah Chel. I Ward Mooney. I Katrina Strozek. I point the order before you close up public hearing. You have to resend the two stop work orders. So we have contractors out there and engineers.

The people I used won't work because there's a stop order.

Okay. Um do I hear a motion to uh I move to resend the two stop work orders.

Is that something we do on current permits? Don't we just do I I think we need we voted we voted to uh impose stock orders. I mean stop orders. We we need to vote to I second Katrina.

Okay. Roll call vote.

Katrina Stroski I.

Ward Bony I.

Deborah Schulty Itock I.

William Kendall I.

Timothy Bryant Iath documentation.

Thank you.

My pleasure.

Heat. Heat.

Heat.

Heat.

standwise.

Heat. Heat.

Thank you.

We need to take this.

Yeah, I've seen that before. This This is just

Okay. Well, we're not done yet.

Yeah.

Applications for certificate of non-applicability. 1904 main road, Dick and Sherry Duncan replaced deck boards like the for like granted by clerk and chair. That's already done.

Um, uh, the last meeting um 1904 also had a um a gate gate application and uh I communicated um your suggestions uh to him. Um, and they're not I guess they were never going to do a shiny cap. It was just a tapered cap.

Right. Perfect.

And um and they asked if if it would be okay to do the tapered cap and and I said that would be fine.

I mean just that looks intentional.

Yeah. Yeah. It did go in or he did go with it. It's it's the things like the, you know, the Home Depot caps and the and the vinyl and the things like that that sort of denigrate the sort of historic n or the the thickness of the point. Right.

Right.

So, yeah. And I think there was a tapered cap on some other structure of the property. So, I think that's they were That's nice.

trying to tie them.

Right. Exactly.

Um, that was the only other Yeah. Okay. So, yeah. Again, no no preliminary reviews, no applications for demolition permit.

Um the the um it was 263 29 23 23 Adamsville Road, which we voted on last time.

Um they they did document the barn. They did they they sent the documentation off to fantastic to the historical society and the barn has been demolished.

They were quick.

They didn't waste the time on that one.

They don't want to get the It was there when I just drove by. Was it?

It was there when I just drove by.

Oh, well, maybe it hasn't.

No.

Um, okay. General business monitors reports. Um, I don't know.

I guess one thing is is that the garage door at 46 Cape File Lane. Um, which was not remember that there was a they were building a garage, but they didn't have a picture of a garage door. Well, we withheld the certificate until we got more information on the garage door.

That was a condition.

And so so they eventually um proposed a a barn style door.

Interesting.

Much better swing door.

Yeah. Yeah. Much better.

And so we uh went ahead and issued this.

No good in the snow, but you know, much better.

Henry's not here during the winter. He doesn't care.

Okay. Any uh topics not reasonably anticipated for you 40 hours in advance?

Eddie.

I just wanted to say congratulations.

Um, I've been attending these meetings for 22 years. Uh, tonight was quite exceptional. Um, and I'd like to thank you for your service and wish you the best in the future. This is my last historical commission.

I'm going to miss all of you. I was just sitting here looking at all of you and appreciating each one of you individually. So, thank you very much for your service and good luck.

And back at you, Betty. Thank you.

Thank you for your service.

Thank you.

We're going to miss you, too.

We certainly are.

Right.

Okay. Um, next item, next and last item is um, executive session for the purpose of considering and approving the minutes of the executive session at the special meeting of July 23rd, 2026.

We will adjourn directly from the executive session.

So, do we shut off the tape recording now or do we keep it?

Um, I don't know.

Just Yeah. Right. And just just to say I mean the the members part participating in the executive session are Katrina Strozik who would move trophy stuck Carol and Timothy Bryant. Um so um do I hear a motion to go into executive session?

I move to go into executive session.

Second.

Uh let's do a roll call vote.

Katrina Strozic I.

Money I.

Deborah Chi Itock I.

William Kendall I.

Timothy Bryant I.

Okay we are now in executive session.