Zoning Board of Appeals - August 12, 2026

Pledge of Allegiance.

Algiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands. One nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

All right.

According to master laws, this meeting is being recorded.

Um, our chair chair Bernard is running late tonight. So, we are going to do the first petition of 427 Main Road with outs uh present. So the voting members tonight will be Jerry uh Cino Cino, George Slagis, Stelgis, Selgis, myself, Cynthia Kazak was much easier than Stelis. Uh Janice Dy and Kevin McGgoth.

I know. I know him, but you know. All right. So the first order is a finding for 427 Main Road on petition of Christopher Katada, applicant and CJ Garage LLC owner that the construction of a new woodframe building slightly larger than the current structure over the existing structure and operates his garage during construction shall not be substantially more detrimental than the existing non-conforming use to the

neighborhood as mandated by zoning bylaws. Article 5, section 5.2 O. The subject property is located at 427 Main Road, Westport, Mass, as shown in the assessor's map, 68, lot 11.

Excuse me, Cynthia. Um, just as a formality, uh, you need to tell them about the recording.

I did already.

Oh, you did?

Yeah.

Yeah, she did.

Yeah.

Sorry.

She read the law and said, Yeah.

Yeah.

Pay attention. [snorts] No, no, no. I'm going by what the boss said.

I know.

The boss told me.

I know. I forget that sometimes, but I didn't because I'm reading this now.

Um, all right. So, this is a finding which means that uh according to the the zoning regulation is that the alteration being proposed will not be substantially more detrimental than the existing non-conforming use of to the neighborhood. And that doesn't mean that really just means safety such as traffic patterns may change um uh water runoff or you know maybe for the change in use if the use is more

detrimental than the existing use. It doesn't mean that you know we're going to critique the uh architecture of the building um and and things like that. So um just so everybody knows. So, right. So, the first thing we'll do is uh we'll hear from the petitioner. Um and then once we hear from the petitioner, we will open it up to the audience. Um and then once we've heard um everything for the

record, uh we'll close the meeting and then we'll discuss amongst ourselves and and vote. So, who's representing Mr.

Dada?

I am. Madam Chair, if I may uh invite up with me uh Chris Cado, the owner, and Dennis Nato, the builder, so that we can all be there here.

Yeah.

In case we have questions, etc. Thank you, Madam Chairman. My name is Richard P.

Dejardan. I'm an attorney and have been one for more than 50 years. And [clears throat] gonna catch me up a little bit. All of those 50 years have been uh right here in Westport, right here in Central Village, right here in the vicinity of what we're talking about today. Uh I've known Chris Carta for 20 years because he first started working as a 19 or 20 year old at Joel's garage u on

Adamsville Road. And it wasn't that long after that. I don't know how many years he wound up working at at Wilfrid's uh where he where he is now. and he's been uh the the owner and boss of that operation for a long time. And and I and I don't think I have to dwell on on it.

I'm I'm presuming that uh that you're all local and know that it does a uh terrific business.

A terrific business. A lion share of the business. Uh we don't have many left. Uh there's Brighton Garage in Adamsville.

There's that one. I'm running out going north. Uh uh Foursquare Garage is gone.

I think maybe it might be replaced by somebody there. I I don't know, but there are a few of them and and more cars. This is Dennis NATO. The prospective builder should be uh fortunate enough to proceed with the project. Uh and I think you've got uh in front of you uh the application which is pretty simple quite frankly. Uh the uh we are requesting a finding here today that it that what we're proposing is not

going to be substantially more detrimental to that neighborhood. I personally uh was in front of this board I think five or six or seven years ago uh when uh Stafford Hart's u uh auto body shop was changed and uh and a very good guy James Cado uh uh took it over.

Uh he's done very well with it. It's it's a neighboring it's a neighboring non-conforming use to to this non-conform non-conforming use. Uh across the street from this non-conforming use is a substantially big non-conforming use. Uh that would be bittersweet. Uh that came in after zoning. It was granted permission to come in uh uh by this board uh I'm going to say in the 80s. Uh Dick Wartz, Mr.

Cino would be remembering some of these names or certainly or whatnot. uh and it has been it has been a substantial important uh entity in in our in our village in our town uh as as was uh uh Mr. Hart's uh right now Mr. Cado is not doing that much business there. He uses it for his electrical business and he just comes and goes with parts and things. So he doesn't you don't see any traffic there.

Wilfred's on the other hand uh teams with business. Uh he has four employees and he uh has been uh as I said doing tremendous amount of of repair work on cars uh used cars for all of us uh for a long time and uh he will continue one way or another. We would hope that you would allow him to continue with a 10 feet bigger in the front and 10 feet

bigger on the side uh uh in increase uh in his in his uh in his perspective building. Uh right now he has a 35 ft by 55- ft building. Uh, and if you put uh 10 more feet on the south side and uh 10 more feet on the front front side, you wind up with a 65x 45 ft building. Uh the uh he he's restricted uh on the north side of his building. He's only

got about a foot and a half, 18 inches or so of uh of land between him and his neighbor. So he is is he they are proposing to build uh uh right off the foundation. Am I correct?

Absolutely. Uh 12 in approximately but within the within the 18 in area and uh and uh and then around the back and and because the uh Chris's plan is to continue he has to be able he can't afford not to he can't afford to close down three or four months in order to get this done. So, he's going to he's going to do this uh there'll be a building built around the existing

building and then at some time at some presuming where he's fortunate enough to to go forward with the project, he'll take down the interior building and he'll have the uh he'll have the old building to to work in under. It'll be a little it will be taller by how much, Chris or Dennis?

Uh probably about on the sidewall, the wall you're saying talking about it's uh six feet higher.

Six feet higher all the way around. It's kind of like a salt box kind of added on add on. It will just be an A-frame when it's done.

And I think in your uh uh I have I have some sketches of of uh very preliminary but uh sketches of uh the dimensions and what uh what the building looks like now uh and what uh what we hope it will look like in the future. Uh it's pretty pretty self-explanatory quite frankly.

uh and uh I don't think it's necessary for to go uh unless I'm I'm forgetting things. Gentlemen, please you're absolutely right. Please add uh it's uh I'm I'm uh I'm a member of the folks at 12 and about five well 10 or 12 years ago they they were they had a completely new maintenance area. They were they were working in an area smaller than the area that we're all we're all sitting in here. Uh and having

lunch in the same area, etc., etc., kind of like these guys are in a sense. Uh and it's it's not it's not a good it's not a good work. We've I don't know if anybody's been in, but if you do go in, you'll you'll see that the working conditions are bleak as as we as we as we uh as they are and have been ongoing.

Uh, I'm hoping that they'll be way better uh with just the increase in the small that small increase in size. Uh, the ability to put appropriate lifts in there so they can get cars up in the air and work under them more more effectively than they're currently too.

The heights are just, you know, and that's why they need a little bit of the heights, too.

Absolutely.

Uh, currently. Oh, go ahead. You explain what you've got currently.

Yeah. I just Thank you.

Well, currently I have uh three bays that I currently work out of. you know, they're stacked, you know, from front to back, basically. And, uh, you know, I want to separate that basically and definitely get some more room so we can actually get the lifts all the way in the air and not be crouched down underneath, you know, certain lifts because we don't have the headlights within the building itself currently.

So, that's one of the main reasons we're, you know, even trying to push for this and and it is old. it needs to, you know, definitely get, you know, remodeled and and done over because it's definitely time. It's been since 47 that, you know, around that year that's, you know, was erected. So, it Yeah. Yeah.

Just just if I may finish uh historically uh I don't think it was 1947, it was 1960 late 1960s that uh that uh uh both of those parcels uh the auto body parcel and and Ankl's garage Wilfrid's parcel uh began to be used uh uh as non-conforming uses uh and and have continued to be so both of them uh there are wetlands issues in in in and around that area. Uh Chris is well aware

of it and he has he has engaged people if we get past this stage to deal with that stage. Uh it's a it's not the perfect uh place for uh for for an operation but it's it's exist it's existing. It's uh it's been there. It's legitimate to the to the degree that it is legitimate uh however however big. uh and we are asking uh for a reason we think reasonable uh uh increase in

actual size. Uh the number of people working there will remain the same. Uh the if they're a little more efficient and effective might they might they do a few more cars? I would think I would hope that they would. Uh but it not not enough to make any changes in in total parking and cars sitting there until they're ready to be moved. Right now, I'm guessing you have at any given time 10 cars on the side.

Yeah. At least uh some of them are your own your own vehicles and and some of them are vehicles waiting waiting to go in and [snorts] waiting for parts, uh etc., etc., but you keep them moving pretty pretty much.

Uh I would tell you to and although this I don't think you'll take this into consideration, uh there's there are negotiations between uh uh Chris and the neighbor to the to the north. uh logically uh he would be a prospective buyer and uh we think that might wind up to be so uh uh and then at which point uh just as an Mr. Antel was and M and Phyllis were owners of the of both

parcels uh their house parcel and the uh and the and the uh garage uh that might very well happen in the future we think but that's just speculation.

You had a question.

It's for you.

So, if you um put in these new lifts and you increase the height, you're going to make it safer for your workers. Is that not correct?

Correct. Correct. Absolutely. Better on all our backs.

Okay.

Actually, like stand up.

Well, sometimes in a Sometimes we have a truck, you know, the truck's, you know, the height it is anyway. We try to lift that. We can only get up so far because we don't have the head height. It's currently like 12 to 13 feet on average height in there.

Well, I was a tanker in the army, so I understand being cramped.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah. You know, so like the conditions where conditions can be a little better for everybody.

It's only really the one side that you can actually use a lift on, right? The one on the north side that the south side bay has a floor lift, right? But that you really can't get post lift. We have a four post lift and a ground lift.

Yeah.

I mean, the the south this this the southside garage door looks like a regular garage.

Yeah.

So, I mean, there's probably some cars that don't even fit in there.

Absolutely.

And then this little where the office is, you're going to make that that's going to be more work space. It's going to be higher.

The office will still be in the front.

It'll just be So the second picture that you have, this one here with the water stains because the day I was coming to see Richard, his roof leaks.

So sitting on the desk and and I'm like, "What am I going to do now?" I said, "Well, here's the evidence. It leaks."

So So I did it anyway because you can still see in the picture what we're doing. That's basically what the garage will look like.

Uh facing the road, there'll be aesthetic shingles instead of vinyl siding. It'll be vinyl, but it'll be impression. So it'll be a little a little more dressed up than plain vinyl siding. So, um, you know, it it's main road. I have a business across the street, NATO's woodworking. I've been doing it for 42 years. So, I've been in Westport my whole life, restoring antiques, buildings, furniture, you name

it. So, I take pride in my town and my road. So, that's what I told Chris that we're going to make it look like Westport, at least what faces the road, you know. So, and then what's the what's the frontage and the setbacks now?

Okay.

But I uh I don't have I don't have figures, but uh I'm going to say from road to uh currently from road to uh building I'd have to estimate. Oh, you got it.

Yeah. Right there.

What is it?

70 70 roughly 77 ft.

Oh, so you got plenty of So it'll go from 77 to Yeah. Yeah.

So, you're staying within actually the I mean, it's a non-conforming use because it's a garage and that is that not the zoning I think the zoning use would be 25 ft.

Yeah.

Oh, yeah. This Yeah. I'm just saying up to 25 [clears throat] ft. But it's um frontage.

So, you're not really changing the you're you're not changing the front.

You're not you're not making the frontage under the 25 ft.

I'd like to respond to that, please. Uh I met with Chris yesterday uh and that's one of the things that I asked uh and u uh number one he did not have knowledge of where his front uh property because we're not talking from the road we're talking from the property line the front property line. Okay. Uh and uh he said he had some uh old plans uh engineered plans.

There are engineered plans.

What's that, please?

I'll show you something.

I'm just telling you what he told me.

He had uh some old plans from a couple of years ago. Uh so I said, "Well, okay.

Well, where is the front line?" And we were standing right in the front of the building. And it certainly didn't look like 77 feet by any means. Uh and uh so I said, "Well, when you add this front, what is the setback going to be from the property line?" Because it needs to be at least 25 ft. And he he was not aware.

Am I correct? What we talked about?

Yes. I didn't have you sitting in front of my face, bud right now.

Yeah.

Yeah. That's about 15 minutes to talk real quick.

Yeah. Yeah. We we were kind of right.

There was a stamped Yeah. But I'm saying that has not been submitted to us. I may and uh does that show the the proposed uh either the current shows existing it shows existing existing what's what's the existing now the the setback from the property line I I don't have I'd have to estimate but it's it's in the 50 to 60 foot range set back right now from the property right Yeah.

Yeah. Cuz I I mean if I had if I had to guesstimate the property line is where the [cough] is [clears throat] here and this is a little bit of road right?

Oh, and you want me to read this? I I have one of those too and I can't.

Let's see if we can blow it up. Take care of it. Sean's got

what does it say?

It's so 44 + 14. So that's 60.

60.

Madam Chairman, uh the uh ser survey and and uh resource conservation commission person Sean Leech has has done work on the property. So he knows he knows some of the these facts you're looking for.

I actually did a good evening Sean Leech, Northeast Engineers. I actually did a survey for Mr. Carter when he first bought the place uh several years ago and it's deceiving where the property line road line layout line is because it's a mass of pavement in front of that particular thing but it's only like four or five feet off the traveled way actually that's where the property line is so it's about 60 ft from the

front of the building to the property line now okay that that's an important consideration uh and uh and then we are changing the uh the setback on the north northerly set as he indic It might.

No, we're not. It's only on the south side.

He said it would be about 12 in more.

Was I correct?

It's going right because he's going on the outside of the existing building.

Let me correct that. He made a mistake.

It's going right where it is now. That wall will be put right back.

That's how I was just presenting.

I know, but I I We got to get it straight here.

I misspoke. Apologies. Yeah.

Uh and and I they're going to put it exactly on top of the current wall um footing. I'm not certain uh what we're going to be dealing with here. Uh if this is the intended last hearing for this and go ahead and you can do what you just said. Um I I question some of the uh activity because uh uh for one thing the uh demolition uh of the existing building I think that

should be um it's obviously what he wants to do uh and will will do if he gets to that point. Um but I don't know whether he would be required to have a demolition permit. I suspect he would because it's on the inside of the property. Uh another aspect of this that uh is unknown or unresolved as far as I'm concerned is that u uh he indicated to me as attorney Jaden's indicated tonight uh

there is a likelihood he told me he he thought that within the next year or so he would be buying the property next door because I I expressed concern about the parking When we when we were there yesterday, I said to him, "How many cars do you think you have here right now?" Because it was jam-packed. I said, "And where could you put another car uh additional cars in here?" because we we um asked

before that, do you expect your uh business to increase with this increased uh area? And he indicated, well, yes, I hope so. That was what he's trying to do. Uh and uh so anyway, so where would you put other vehicles? So, we walked around briefly and uh there were a couple of places where he had some cars that uh were not current customers uh that were his his own u or or related to

him. And uh so in theory, those would be disappearing. Uh but anyway, he he said, "Well, I got about 20 on here right now." That's not counting the ones inside that he was working on. And uh so I said, "Well, where where would you put the additional ones? Would you have room?" Because your parking area is part of your business. Uh and uh he said, "Well, we have to work that out."

Yeah. Look, there's two things. How many more cars are you going to get inside?

I'll be able instead of like three, I'll be able to put like seven, right? So, you know, for the car, instead of them going in and out, what they have to do now when they have to, let's say, if they're working on a car and they need a part, they got to pull it, they have to pull it out and then they put something else in to keep them moving. Or alternatively, there's

sometimes you are working on something and you can't get the car out because you've taken it aart so it can't move and now it's preventing something that he thought he was going to get into the shop.

is staying outside. So, I I don't think there's going to I I you know, I you I utilize Wilford's for all my odd cars that I have. Um because Chris was the only one who's you know, brave enough to work on them. Um, and I think it's a matter of I think when they have more space inside and they can actually do a better flow of the work, there's going to be less cars

actually outside waiting because it's going to be a better workflow for them to actually get things done than the workflow they have now where they're constantly moving and jockeying cars around or or a car stuck on the lift because, you know, they need a an axle and now they can't move it because it's got to stay where it is or I'm just making an axle up.

I I am not disputing that uh at all.

There should be a parking first of all, right? That's that's what I'm getting at. Okay. Because uh a couple more reasons.

Uh one is that he expects more business from this addition. Uh and uh but secondly and it was referred to he told me that uh the remember now the parcel to the north that was owned by the ankles uh was not and never has been a part of the business. That's a separate thing. But he indicated to me that he has an easement.

Uh is that an legal easement? you my written legal easement right now for for you to use that.

Okay. Well, I would contend that that's not a legal arrangement because uh uh that uh I remember Capeway Roofing wanting to buy a house where they were for their employee parking and so forth. And we we had to deny that uh because it was never an operating business. So I'm talking about the completely separate parcel. Correct.

Correct. That's exactly what I'm saying.

We understand that.

It's the north parcel. Okay. It's the north parcel and it is not a nonconforming use.

Okay.

No, the the house is the house.

The house parcel.

That's correct. And that's my point. So, uh legally we're not here to discuss that process.

You may not be, but that's part of his current parking. He told me that he has No, no, no. I think you're misunderstanding.

I did not misunderstand.

Uh we don't have any we don't have any right to park on that parcel.

Was it that easement was for a well purposes?

Yeah. Okay.

The classic Westport uh you can we'll share shared well. Yeah. That that was all it was that easement was about.

Well, I'm going to tell you that I because I asked him specifically, "Where are you going to put these extra cars and he said I'm going He has no choice but to keep them on that property.

Just because there's more business doesn't mean there's going to be extra cars on the property. He has to work the schedule so he can own Well, could I say this that I think we're not doing our job properly if we don't if if we act on this tonight and say yes, go ahead. just based on what we've heard right now, as far as I'm concerned, it's deficient because we

have not uh we don't even have in front of us a parking plan. That to me, that's the biggest issue there. Okay. And and I don't know how you could possibly say that that would not affect the neighborhood uh if we have cars now. And the same thing with Bittersweet, by the way. Once in a while, bittersweet, they have a large parking area, but once in a while you'll see cars having a park out

on the street and so forth. So, so I think that we at the very least need to have a parking plan, right? But just because there's more business doesn't mean there going to be more cars on the lot at any given time.

How do you know that?

It's going to be because he only puts he That's not That's not what he said to me.

Okay. Well, I'm gonna I'm gonna I'm gonna if I if I may object a little bit, you might have had private conversations that I have nothing to nothing to know about it and I don't know anybody else on this board that knows about the private conversations. If you want to start bringing those private conversations out so we all know what they were and whatever, that's one thing, but how do we Nobody here knows

what conversation you had.

I'm telling you and and well to not going to deny that we know this much so far. So what were the conversations? 10 minutes.

That was a conversation. What the what?

I'm sorry. I don't understand.

What did you talk about, Jerry? You talked about the parking and that he expects increase parking and the parking plan before we approve it.

Right.

That's what I'm saying.

That's the primary thing. I have no problem with what he wants to do.

And well, how many cars is he allowed to have on that lot at any given time? I don't think anybody's made it.

If if if I may, uh when we have used car lots in this town, we've we've historically had parking plans, etc., etc. He does not have a used car license, right?

He's not he's not moving used cars in and out of that and that necessarily in and out of that, but I'm not suggesting there are not there's not a used car here or there, but he's not selling.

He's he's strictly a repair shop. It's not it's not what you see is what you get at that place. uh I if he if he handle mishandles things he would he would spill out onto the road. I haven't noticed him spilling out on the road. I don't think there's been any parking unlike what you who you mentioned across the street that has caused neighborhood problems big time. But Wilfr's garage hasn't done that here

and I don't think it will in the future.

His business is going to be a little bit better, a little more profitable and a lot neater is what we're arguing if if this were allowed. uh and not not I don't see it as being delotterious to the to the neighborhood necessarily necessarily un unless somebody can come up with some problem at all with with what you just said. Uh but what I am concerned about is a parking plan. Okay.

We don't normally just uh go without uh fact uh factual information uh when we make these decisions. and the parking plan is clearly uh could have an effect on the neighborhood.

But I I think the question is simply is the new construction going to be substantially more detrimental? We've always had to focus on that, right?

And I think we're getting a little off track talking about parking and yeah, you can park 500 cars there and that would be a problem. It's very it's but that's a secondary issue I think than what we're posed with here which is simply is this construction going to be what do you have we don't we don't think there's going to be any more cars necessarily if he's according to him I'm go ahead what was this conversation

I said I said it earlier I asked him if you expect to have more cars yes I I plan to have more business I also said be more efficient with a new building and they would get out in and out faster more cars and more business are not the same like on the property because I mean you only take in on the property as many as you can actually fit right now.

I don't think he can fit that many cars efficiently or effectively on that on that lot. He's he's handicapped with the number of cars he can put on that lot.

And the minute he starts to encroach on his neighbor, either neighbor, north or south, he's he's in trouble with the neighbors. And that would be That's a totally separate issue than what we're looking at here.

We're simply trying to evaluate whether the construction substantially more detrimental from a building perspective, right?

So, this man can have a building that's not raining on his head when it rains.

And I think we could come up with hypothes holes in it and this guy's working on chairs underneath cars cuz the lift won't go high enough.

Work for years, but it's time to move on.

People have gotten taller. Oh, a sight plan. you just what was that what you I don't think that's that's not what we're tasked with evaluating here. It's simply if the the building permit will be more delletterious or substantially more detrimental than the existing non-conforming use. Right?

So I think that I think that evaluating hypotheticals of a parking situation is outside of our I'm not talking hypothetical. I'm talking about a parking plan which exists. But [snorts] I don't think the parking plan has so many uh uh feet for each parking spot. So much for handicap. Where's your handicap spot?

Now I what Kevin is saying what Kevin is saying is that a finding does not include revisiting the parking plan the parking or parking plan or lack there of or there is one. I think that's what Kevin is trying to get at. It's not relevant to our discussion. under our rules.

That's what we're same thing.

The parking plan. The parking plan is not going to change from the current parking plan. He's got We don't have a current pocket plan.

You've got one. Good choice.

This is their pocket.

They don't have that given.

You're welcome to You're welcome to see.

This is This is the current parking. And it's got There's going to be less less parking in a sense. He's going to have to manage it more effectively than than he is now, right? Because you're taking some of the parking away.

You're taking a few the the building correct expanded.

That's correct.

That's what I'm talking about.

Is it not logical that if you're taking a few away, he's got to be more efficient in how he handles his business or he'll be encroaching either on the street or on the uh on the neighbor, which he'll get in trouble doing and uh in theory more than double capacity.

What do you do after once it's built?

What do you do when he starts having that issue?

Does he cut back his voice?

Well, he he could tell.

There's no There's no There's no We got another conversation, please.

Hypotheticals.

We could talk. We could sit talk.

I'm not talking hypothetical.

Well, we all parking plan. A parking plan has so much space for each car. You have an area for for handicap patent parking.

Do Do you agree? You do agree, don't you, that he can put as many cars on that lot today as he can fit. There's nothing in presuming presuming that he's he's he's not encroaching on on side side lots or whatever. Correct. He he can park all the cars in the world that he can get that he can fit. No more. He can't fit any more than that right now.

That's correct.

So that's not going to change. There might be What's going to change is he's adding buildings.

Yes. And there might be park the car where the building is.

We agree. We agree there be going to be inside the building, but there'll be more spaces inside. It's not really not going to change.

Yeah.

Truth we know.

Yeah.

And the bigger you got a parking plan. Why don't you submit it as I've got an existing parking plan? I didn't know. That's why I didn't go.

Right. Let them have that's that's existing.

You want to make coffee?

Yeah.

So yeah, I mean for any I'm looking at the zoning bylaws for parking for any use not specifically listed which is what's that please?

I'm looking at the zoning laws requiring parking. There's nothing specific about uh automobile, you know, service garages. So therefore, for any use not specifically listed, one and a half spaces for each 1,000 square ft of floor space and one space for each two employees.

So it doesn't take a rocket science to know that he has that much parking spaces because how big is the building going to be when it's done?

It's all done. It is.

Can't be more than 2,000, right?

No. Um, no, it's right here. Sorry.

The new Spanish. The new space is 65 by 45.

The old space is 54 and 3 in by 35.

Oh, so it's 2800. Let's just say it's 3,000. It'll be easier, right?

Yeah.

So 1.5.

If I only knew how to 1.5. Yeah. I know, but I like to do it on a calculator.

Four and a So, he needs four and a half and one space for each two employees.

So, he needs two. So, he needs six and a half spaces.

I think you got that.

Yeah.

And I think seven spaces in the garage, right?

Yep.

And I think along the south side, I think that's six and a Yeah.

cars. And I don't think he needs handicap spots because the hand you go right up. I don't think it's required.

in in a the building department may say we need this, we need that. We're not there. So, Y because people don't stay there.

No, they drop their car off.

Y um it's not like I'm going into my doctor's office and I have to physically walk into my doctor's office from wherever I park.

If you're handicapped and you're dropping your car off, most likely somebody else will be with you and will most likely pull right up next to you. No.

So I I I don't think I mean the building part may ask them for that. Will the build will the will will um would the building permit require a parking plan too?

He'll get one. It'll be done by the architect. Uh and then an engineer is going over all of it uh with his stamp to make sure that everything is legit for Chris so he has no problems.

Yeah. I mean, it's an investment for him for today and the future to family or whoever he may or keep it forever, sell it, whatever it's going to be.

Um, and I we could make it subject to finish my remarks by saying if this is intended to be the final meeting uh of of this board regarding this um for the uh and then you're free to just go and do it. I said, "Then I'm concerned if he's going to come back here for uh variances or or um um not being able to meet the parking requirements and so forth, then I would u see it

differently. But right now, I don't see it. That's the biggest thing I see when I go by that garage. And it's good garage. Been there for years. Uh is the massive uh parking all over the place.

And uh and I do think he's got it now where they park more neatly, but that and that's fine. And he's got the stuff in. He's got a few that he can uh get rid of in the sense that they're his to begin with. However, I still think that a parking plan is desirable. I don't consider this.

He's going to need a parking plan to do the permit.

Unless you very respectfully, very respectfully, there's no requirement for him to park a certain way. There there there are no requirements that I know of like there are like there are in Lee's market situations where you have to you have to actually show plans of of the actual parking spots, etc., etc. He can move cars around on that inside his garage and outside the garage just like Frankie

Brighten can and any other maintenance operation can. The operation that used to operate down there at Horsene Neck Road at the corner of Hicksbridge Road.

Nobody regulated nobody regulated the number of cars etc in a in those garages. They were they don't they don't I do you get a license to be a to for your garage?

Yeah.

What what's your license to to run to run a maintenance garage? Right.

Yeah. Repair and service. Okay. So, it's it's not to park cars or to sell cars or to do all that other stuff. Yes, that's part of his business.

People to to shop. It's But there So, there is no such thing as a parking plan. Why Why are you restricting him to a plan?

I don't agree with that.

He's got a he's got 23,000 square feet on that lot. He can use whatever portions he's allowed to use, right? Any way he wants to use it.

Yeah. How much is he allowed to use of of the 23,000? How much is usable?

That's that what pretty much what you see is what you get over there, I think.

Yeah.

So, he's always going to have that. He's always going to have that that that dability, so to speak, or or ability.

Either way, it's not going to change.

What Why would you need a plan? He's he he can't buy he can't he can't take his non-conforming use into the other person's yard, can he?

No.

Won't happen, will it?

Or shouldn't?

Well, no, but that's what he had in mind when he told we were talking. If if he told you, he was wrong in telling me.

Okay. All right. Maybe he was wrong in telling me, but that's one of the things I said to him from the beginning was where are you going to put these extra cars that that uh you you're taking the space for the building. So, and that's when he told me, I mean, why would he be telling me about this easement that he has for the uh the easement is got telling you what he

said? I don't know what he said.

He never said for the well. He he said that the uh uh but but he planned to buy that property and that would solve in his his words that would solve the the parking problem.

Well, he he was mistaken because it's not solving any problem. It's and and and we're not stating here today that he's going to be parking cars on that lot whether he owns it or somebody else owns it. He'd have to come here. He'd have to come back here to do that and uh I doubt that he would do that. So I don't really think it's gerine to this to this issue.

Can I say something?

So let's say x is your amount of cars that you can park and all of a sudden y becomes greater than x. You can't you say I can't work on that car until next week?

Yeah, that's what I do. It's what I do with a schedule. You can it's about scheduling. Everything's about schedule.

That's what I said. No, he cut back his business. That's what I said.

No. What is No, he makes you wait.

I I I understand what you're saying exactly. It's like he only takes on so as many cars as he can can get through in Excuse me.

If if I'm sorry, he [clears throat] can only take on so many cars that he can actually reasonably get done. The problem now is that when he thinks it's going to be done in a day because of the constrained spaces, sometimes it takes a day and a half just because of the jockeying of the cars around and having to move them out and get getting them back into order

to put pull them out again. So, it'll be more efficient. So he will be able to get through as many cars as he can in a week a lot faster than he can now. So there isn't going to be physically at any one time more cars. It's just going to he's going to be able to control how long those cars are sitting there.

Efficiency, right? The volume of cars that he can work on is going to go up.

Absolutely. Lifts, you know, more lifts, more cars being done. And I and as Roger mentioned, which I also mentioned uh at the beginning of the meeting, the very they're not not more detrimental to the neighborhood is really the safety concerns. And safety is cars moving in and out of the the of the parking lot.

And obviously, I mean, uh your clients aren't moving the cars in the where you park them for insurance reasons because you don't want I usually park them. Yes, I park everything. So you don't have to worry about that issue of safety of, you know, because you're in a cramped space that people are going to be hitting into each other because you take care of that.

People pull up.

Exactly.

They leave the car out and then you either bring it in or put it to the side or Yeah. put it to a good spot where they can get out easy.

Um, and you know, I don't think there has ever been an accident of someone pulling in or out of because there's not a lot of It's not like it's leaves or or bittersweet where there's constant traffic. It's you know, you're there. It's sporadic. You know, one car is done at noon, someone picks it up.

Although, you know, maybe at the end of the day, it might be a little bit busier because people are coming after work and picking up the cars, but I don't I don't see that there's going to be a change of traffic patterns in in my opinion. Um, and I I again, I think you just I mean, if you can't fit them on the lot, you're not take you're going to tell you're

gonna tell someone to go home.

Can't take you now. Have to do it later.

Um, anybody else have Well, I think that what I hear Jerry's concern is is that, you know, our town is um growing and that's why we're here to make sure that, you know, um our community is safe and and um but uh I think that the bylaw says that it is not one that needs spaces conformed or it was a non-conforming business. I just see there's a lot of other businesses in

town. I don't know if anybody's driven down the point lately.

Um and I think that's your concern.

Social Club on a Thursday night, right? And so I think that's your your concern is that [clears throat] and um I just think that um if it's not in the bylaws parking and if he already it was six and a half seven inside and maybe he I don't know if he's looking if you're looking for a he meets the minimum requirements right? No, I'm not sure. But I understand what you're saying, Jerry,

and I think it needs to be considered as we um grow as a town.

Yeah.

I mean, but the difference here is that Brightens, as you talked about earlier, and all these others, they're not here to get an expansion of their of their business.

If they are, then we should be considering How many more bays are you putting in?

Um, I'm keeping the two original in the front and I'm adding three to the side.

Uh, facing Cord Mr. Cordderero.

So, you have three right now because they're back. They're they're they're they're one, two, three. So, there'll be three and and technically six.

Yeah, exactly.

He hasn't decided if the back bay is going to actually be a vague alignment stuff and all that. much more efficient clearly.

Extremely. Yes.

Yeah. And I think as George said earlier, I think it's going to be much more safer for the workers because right now it's there it's pretty cramped in there and pretty creepy.

By the way, what we what was not said here tonight. Uh but uh and we don't have a uh picture of the uh proposed building, but uh he told me that the entrance to the bays are going to be going on the south side uh not on the front like like before. Uh I don't I don't recall whether you're going to keep there's a picture of that in in the in the

Yeah, you're going to keep the front one also. both the two fronts and they're just adding street to the side on the south side.

Yeah. So, what I'm getting at is that that takes away from outside parking quite a bit as well. So, that's all I'm concerned about is it I I just don't want it overflowing and I think that there will if we don't need to do a parking plan.

So, you Well, I mean there's he can do a parking plan. He can still over overflow because he could just not respect the parking plan. So then that affects the neighborhood.

But he has not shown that he disrespects the neighborhood up to this point.

No, we haven't been there for 13 years now.

Not at all.

And I might add, I think the neighbors were notified, were they not?

Yes.

Yeah.

And I mean, we haven't we haven't opened it.

It's indicative in the sense when they don't come that I'm not suggesting they're supportive, but they're not anti. That's for sure.

Yeah. I I think otherwise is is there anybody here from the any butterfs?

Yeah.

Do you have something you want to say?

No, he's doing a fine business. I don't see any problems.

Your name for the record, sir.

And I agree with that.

Does any we can close the hearing and anybody wants any other questions for the applicants?

You can say something too.

No, I can't. I'm not here. You were here.

No, you can ask a question.

Um, you're in your in your, you know, brilliant self if you have any questions.

No, but you close it.

Yes. Okay, I can close it. Yes. All right, I'm going to close the hearing.

And what that means is that then we're just going to talk about that.

You want a motion to Oh, a motion to close the hearing. Oh, yes.

I'll make a motion to close the hearing.

Second.

Second.

Okay.

All right.

Yes.

Thank you, Madam Chairman.

Oh, we got a vote.

You have to vote for close the hearing.

Vote to close hearing.

Everybody in favor say I.

I.

Anybody in favor? Uh, not in favor say nay. Guess we're all in favor.

The meeting is closed. Where you guys going? There you go.

We're going anyway. We're just We're retiring so you guys can see.

Okay. You'll walk out. Thank you very much to the entire board. Thank you.

We're not done with you. Um, so they're gone, but now we just discuss amongst ourselves if um I think Jerry has had some concerns.

Um, I'm not going to say anything.

What?

Well, I won't say. I've already said.

Yeah, I know.

And I understand what he's saying.

Yeah. I mean, we could have and we looked at the parking and he meets the minimum requirement, but he said that his business will be expanding.

I don't know.

But that's a hypothetical, right? [snorts] Um, he meets the minimum requirements.

Um, is there anything else that could if if if it be becomes a hazard of parking, there's too many cars on the lot? Is there I mean neighbors can What will the building department will they I wish Ralph was here. I didn't know if Ralph will require a parking plan in conjunction to his building permit.

Yes, they normally do, right? So, and they also normally require a u a site plan approval by the planning board as well.

Okay. So, what I would suggest so that so there is other steps that is they go there. That's what I'm saying.

Well, they have to go to the building department.

Yes.

They may not have to go to the site plan approval, right? I don't think they need a site plan approval because that there was an I just happened to know that Chris wanted to do something else a couple years ago that was going to require a site plan approval and then he would lose his non-conforming use status and that's why they're doing it this way. Um so it's going to go to the building

department. The building department is going to make sure that they have the minimum amount of parking spaces that they if they require because it's very unclear if they actually require any you know is there is any minimum. Um we could put restrictions on it that there can't be more than 20 cars parked there at any given time if we want to pointing.

Yeah. Well, that's part to to to what Kevin said. that it's really not.

It's not really the aspect of the finding.

Yes. The aspect of the finding is if the building construction is more detrimental to the neighborhood than the existing use. And I don't see it being more detrimental. I I I I think if anything, it's going to be a positive. The building is going to be safer.

I agree with all of that.

Right. the I I don't think there's going to have an increase in traffic and there's be there's going to be less there's going to be less car there's gonna physically going to have to be less cars in the lot based upon the fact that they're taking some of the parking lot away. Um I I don't see them in Well, that's not necessarily true cuz it probably cares parked inside as well, right? So there's

the ones that would be outside or I mean there obviously I think they can get more in a in square footage outside than in a bay because there's room around the bay, but I don't really see that there's going to be I personally don't see there's going to be more um uh issues with parking than right now. And I don't think there really is an issue of parking. As I said, every time I pass

by on the weekends down Main Road, 95% of the cars are not are not there.

They're just he gets, you know, he brings them in for the week and they're gone by the weekend because except for maybe one or two that um linger on and then there's some that show up during the the weekend. Um, yeah, you're not going to he's not he can't leave cars overnight on the street. I mean, I he'd be I mean, it would be I think he he could legally, but yeah, but I don't I mean,

he would as as as as somebody who uses auto mechanics, I would not be very happy if my car was left on the side of the road instead of in in a parking lot relatively secured. I mean, if you're really concerned about it, you could just put clause at the end that just say that they have to comply with the with the building department's parking requirements.

That's what I Yeah, I didn't hear that comment.

Could we just put it we could make it subject to that they comply with all the requirements, parking requirements required by the building department.

That would be it would be nice if if Ralph was here, right? Anyway, it's just Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. We all know how good the enforcement is of things in Westport.

[snorts] Well, exactly. We he can have the best the most beautiful parking plan in the world, but it's down to enforcement. And that's that's right.

That is out of our unfortunately out of our hands. Um it is what you know it's I mean there's not enough of parking at the social club and I had 14 cars towed up in my property last week. So with that with with with tenants not being able to park.

So is that detrimental to the neighborhood?

What the social club?

What you just said?

The social club. Yes.

Okay.

So I think if they wanted to do something um well it would be in a butter so I wouldn't be able to vote but I think I would vote for an expansion of them. But you know it's I I I you know I there has been no accidents. there hasn't been any, you know, complaints to the building department or the town about the uh about Wilfr's garage. Um I'm happy to to entertain a motion to um

I would just like to clarify one thing.

He submitted the attorney submitted this indicating it was a parking plan. Uh it's I don't think Do you do you see this? parking plan and I I haven't Oh, take a look.

Because I mean I think it makes a difference cuz So what did that say?

Is seven seven spots.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So that's all he can have.

That's all he needs.

Yeah.

That's all he needs. He only needs six and a half and he has seven. So this is no way indic indicative of what exists.

Can I see where the guy was supposed to pass these down?

Yeah. Okay. Hard. Okay. I had it.

I know where. So his heart is where's main road.

Okay. Here.

Yeah.

So heart is on this side. So this is this is we're coming up this way. This is the south side. This is the north side.

Yep. Yep. Yep. So this is Yeah.

The bottom is the south.

No, this is the heart property. That's the south.

Right.

That's not Well, the bottom I'm holding it this way. So I'm saying the bottom of this.

Yeah. Yeah. Well, I'm I'm holding it so I can look at it like I'm looking at it from the street. So that's So this is the the heart property in the south and this is the existing building and this is parking. There's no parking obviously up against here because that's where there's only 12 ft between him and his neighbor. Um and I will say the electrician who did come before this board uh and got

approvals uh to convert the hot auto body thing uh has done a beautiful job of putting stone walls and grass and it's really really nice.

Um, so I make a motion to accept the grant.

Grant grant. I said I make a motion to grant.

You said accept.

I don't grant.

No. To find.

So are we finding or are we granting?

Read the You're not granting a special permit and you're not granting a variance.

No, we're granting a finding. Yeah.

That's the construction. So just start from there.

Yes. So I make a motion that we grant the uh petition of Chris Christopher Katada uh that the construction of a new wood frame building slightly larger than the current structure over the existing structure and operating his garage during the construction shall not be substantially more detrimental than the existing nonconforming use of the neighborhood as mandated by this. Yeah, we don't have to say that. But

do we have a second?

Second.

Everyone in favor say I.

I.

I.

I.

I'll say I.

I'll say I w with my concerns expressed already.

So unanimous.

It is unanimous.

We've got what a 20-day waiting period before you can start any construction.

Um, but you'll have to get your building permit anyway and that will take 20 days.

Um, thank God you don't have to have a septic put in because they're not doing perks. Um, thank you.

Town's not doing perks.

They don't have any.

Okay, you're in charge of the next one, buddy.

Hopefully, it's easier than the last one.

Oh, all the above.

I'm going to uh You want to say why I'm Oh, actually, first of all, let me let me introduce it and then you can Yeah.

yourself.

The second hearing is 127 lane hearing on a petition and Chan and Trub shall not be substantially detrimental to the neighborh mandated by Iowa section.

Suba mis

Yeah. Uh I'm going to be uh recusing myself from uh acting as a voting member on this hearing. Uh I will be in the audience but I will have any right of any other citizen to uh to express any thoughts I have on it. Uh because I am in a butter directly across the street from the Chan property. Uh so I'm going to go sit in the audience.

Okay. Therefore the the voting members will be elus myself Rajard Cynthia Conitz Janice Day and um this is a um a finding.

So therefore, it requires just a majority uh of the u of the voters to approve and um again I guess I'll with started off with this that the way the process will work is will allow the applicant to provide whatever information is pertinent. the board will ask questions. Once the board has finished asking questions, I want to open it up to the public.

So, and if you if you do come to have any comments, um come to the microphone and state.

Yeah. Good evening. Sean Leech, Northeast Engineers, representing Ann Chan who are here tonight. They're the owners of this property. Uh just as a brief overview, this property is located on Petty Lane. Uh, petty lane runs westerly from Horsene Neck Road. It goes down and flares out into three lanes. A lower petty lane, a middle petty lane, an upper petty lane. I don't know if everybody's familiar with the property

itself. This is the property in question right here, 127A. This particular plan shows a 250 ft radius around the property and all the structures within 250 ft of this. And as we all know, most of these cottage neighborhoods are very crowded and especially this one. Some of these houses are literally 210, 3 in off the line. The Chan's existing house is uh not that far off the line.

This is what the existing dwelling looks like in relation to the lot uh with a deck.

It is 2 point it is currently this deck corner is 2.8 ft off the line. The house itself is 22.8 ft from I'll call it middle petty lane. uh and is uh a great distance from lower Petty Lane. It's funny how the zoning dis uh addresses corner lots but not lots to straddle two roads as to what you use for frontage and in this particular case they're both petty lanes. So I'm not sure what

they're considering to be the front yard here. Uh we're assuming the front door where the front door faces is where we're going to consider to be the front front yard. So this is the existing conditions. It's a very steep, if you're familiar with it, very dropped the hill dropped off dramatically, uh, from east to west down to lower petty lane, then down to the west branch of the river.

Excuse me. East branch of the river.

East branch.

Yeah, east branch.

East side of the east branch.

So again, this is the existing dwelling with all the offsets to all the uh pertinent structures. This in this includes the house itself, which we're considering cuz the deck is going to change. But for consideration, the existing 2.8 ft and the 6.7 on the other side is what the sideyard currently is.

And we're proposing to demolition this house and build a new house. And in order to do that, there's some regulations that have to be followed.

One of them, most notably, is the board of health.

What we're proposing to um you went through all the property lines with the current. Can you go through the property line with that's next? That's coming up.

It's really obvious on this one. It's not so obvious on the other.

So, here is the proposed where the proposed house will go. Uh it's going to be slid uh down the hill.

Oh, um go ahead.

Go ahead. Okay. It's going to be slid down the hill. And the reason we're sliding it down the hill is because to meet the requirements of the board of health, we have to put a denitrification treatment system in for the existing septic system. So in order to accommodate that space, we're sliding it down the hill. It's essentially the same size with a small bumpout. The deck has

shrunk on each side. So the offsets that we're maintaining, and I have a table with the summary, so I'll go over that later on, is actually greater than what is existing now. It, you know, I I read the your input here. And it it seems to me that that the proposed left one of the sideyards is closer to the side than than than the current.

Yeah, it it's easier to look at it here.

So, here here is the overlay of the new house and the old house. The new house being the shaded gray portion of the old house, the current house.

is the hatched dark line segment.

So that's in relation to where things are on the lot. That's where the difference of the two houses are. Now, as far as the offsets, there's a nice little table that was put together by regarding the changes in regards to zoning.

So, this is a table and it's on one of the plans. I don't know how well you can read it, but I'll go over it. It's obviously in a residential zone. Lot area is not changing.

Uh, lot frontages aren't changing. So, we're looking at lot coverage. Lot coverage is 23%.

Future is going to be 20%.

The building height currently, it's a one and a half story building, 19 ft three. It's going to be two stories.

Mhm.

The middle way setback is 228 to the building. Now we're proposing uh 261 to the deck, 27.8 to the building.

The lower way set back is 40 48.2 ft to the deck. We're proposing 41. The reason we're proposing 41 is we have to slide it down the hill again to meet the requirements of the board of health.

Plenty of It's still plenty. It still meets the requirement. So all these comply with the zoning bylaws.

Now, as far as the sideyard setback, currently this two 2.8 ft is the minimum 10.2 feet to the building. We're proposing 8.2 the closest point to the deck and 9.8 to the building.

I guess that's what I'm looking at is the building. So, you're 4/10, which is a little over almost 5 in closer.

Can I just say something?

No.

Why don't you come up here and sit if you want to talk?

Chris Chan. I'm an architect and uh my wife and I are both architects and and helped design the building. So, it's very subtle and you've picked it up very quickly. The lot is not the two lines right there. Two lines are not parallel.

So, when we slid it up, we actually slid it towards the bottom of the hill and the lot is slightly narrower at the bottom of the hill. So even though we improved the deck set back because we made the deck smaller on that side, even though we kept the setback exactly the same on the other side, it made it a tiny bit smaller. And so if you look at the original survey, the bottom of the

parallelogram of that lot, they're not the same. So when we slid the same size as the building is now down a little bit, you came a little closer. I I understand that but technically you're approaching you are moving more in violation for that particular corner.

Technically the offset that you would be measuring to would be to the deck and the minimum deck on that side is 2.8 ft.

So the deck is 2 point the current deck which is a structure which you would have to follow the zoning bylaws would be 2.8 ft on the current structure. This one is proposing and although he's very nicely put the building here for your information, the 8.2 is actually the offset that you'd be concerned about.

And that is, you know, 5.4 ft more than what it was or what it is right now as we talked today.

All right. I'm still Can you go back to the first ex? Yeah.

The existing existing one. the existing because that really clearly shows the um all the all the offsets, right? Um th this offset here, this deck that jogs out here from midway from the southernly.

Not that one.

This one.

No, I'm this this this picture.

Oh, okay. Sorry.

So again, we're talking the deck being 2.8 ft off the property line.

Okay? And it's a h and at that point the house is is 10.2 10.2 two.

The midpoint of the house is two.

And then if you compare it to the you plan, it's going to be the deck.

It's going to be 8.2.

I'm sorry.

Okay. So, you're squinching in on the deck, right?

Okay. Okay.

Although the building is close, the offset get your So the the closest part of the structure is is going to be uh 8.2 versus 2.8 previously.

Correct.

Okay. All right. I got it. All right.

Correct. So back to sometimes you're giving too much information.

I know. I know. tried to be, you know, fair about it, but you know, it would have been a whole lot easier if you had made the same chart, the same picture with the new configuration.

Right. Right. And and we do have one.

There is one there is one in the not a really I mean it's there is one, but they're very nice.

Really tiny. This one here is very clear.

Yeah. Okay. So, getting back to this.

So, the the final thing is the sideyard setback. But before I get any further, so we do every everybody anybody think that there is a a variance required for this?

Okay. Well, if if they if they if they are moving any closer to a property line with the new building than the old building, then it requires a variance because they're encroaching on if they go less than 10 ft 10 foot.

If they are not right, it's a if if they were two feet from the property line before and now they're one foot from the property line, that's requires a variance.

Okay.

All right. anytime they that that they move that even though they're in violation now, but that's they can't be in more they can't be in more violation.

So, and that's so I mean I'm only talking about that because we we need to to divorce ourselves from a finding and a variance because if this required a variance then all then all bets are off, right?

Because that's not that's not what this is about. Well, I think if you look at the right jumping down to the next line on the chart, the right yard side yard setback currently 6.2 to the deck, 7.8 to the building, and we're proposing 6.2 to the deck existing and actually getting further away, 8.1 ft to the building on there.

So, we're not encroaching any further on either side with the deck or the actual structure itself.

But you made the deck smaller on purpose so you would stay within.

So the 6.2 feet, we wouldn't be 6.1 foot.

If you had made the deck the same size, you would we'd be encroaching because we have to slide down the hill and it's a converging line.

Yeah, I'm confused.

But it's from the deck. That's why it's 2.8 now. It's 82. If the building doesn't count, it's the deck. It's the It's the end of the deck, not the building. Right. Well, the building is closer, but the deck is further further away. The deck and the steps are further away. Yes.

So, if the building's closer, Roger, going back to your I had to take a Well, it's the structure because the part of the So, is that what you're saying is that is there variance?

No, it's Well, no, there it includes the deck. So if if the old again, that's why it would have been good to be able to compare the the two.

Mhm.

So well, the building the the obstruction they're building isn't going to be any closer than the structure they have.

Yeah. Okay.

And I'm still I'm curious about because I I drove by both sides of it.

Where's your front door?

It's up in the right hand.

It's on the upper upper heading wing right hand corner when you come up. So it is still on the petty lane side on the upper on the upper upper way but on the north side middle way.

Yes, the north side of the front well the north side of the upper petty lane.

Correct.

There's actually a door there now. So our doors are kind of where they were before but not exactly.

It's actually the there's three of them.

Yeah.

So there's it's the middle. We're in the middle.

It's the middle and then the lower.

And there's actually another one below that.

Well, I mean the upper as far as they're concerned.

Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. An upper as far as Okay. Right.

So there is a door there.

The lower is actually an upper to the person below it. So we would be it'll be in the right hand corner. Yes.

Exactly. And there's a little kind of thing there now on the side, but it would be more in the corner of the house.

So that makes it that's okay. So it's a strange situation.

It's a strange situation.

Upper lower.

Neither of them face one of the roads, right?

Well, our your front yard actually looks at your neighbor. So, our the new opening is actually in the corner. So, the front yard looks at your neighbor to the north.

Your front yard being listed from where your front door is.

Well, no, the door will actually face the street. So, it's cut away in the corner. That's the old house. The new house will actually turn that door.

He's talking about the new house.

Oh, the old house. Yes. The the doors are on the sides of the house.

So, it's actually on your looking at your door. They're facing either street, right? Yeah. So that would be the one that would require 25 ft.

Well, no, it's actually 25 ft from the street.

It has to do with road as opposed to the But it's been there. So it's like it's the road because I like my doors neither of my doors face the road.

That's my front that's my front yard.

That's where I have my 50 ft of front.

Just a a slightly subtle thing. When we move the house back away from the street, we actually meet the setback where we didn't before in the front.

Uh oh. Okay. But which the front being the upper the being the upper way. So I mean that's a very small thing and in fact both our neighbors are actually probably closer to us or the same. So we're actually not in line anymore when we move it but you know it's so as far in terms of zoning.

Yes.

We have to hang on a second.

Okay. So as far as the building size itself the current footprint is 714 ft. there's a slight increase of for 49 square feet to 763 square feet. Uh the deck footprint shrinks significantly from 508 to 345. So you're losing 200 ft. So if you look at the total square footage of the proposed and the existing, we're actually about 100 square ft smaller in total footprint size for the structure itself.

And as far as the finished floor elevation, which is kind of relevant, it's not a flood zone or anything like that. Uh it's just slightly higher. So we think that basically since we comply with as with most everything here, uh including, you know, the except for the two existing non-conforming, which are the sideyard offsets, we're actually getting further away with the deck 5.4 4 ft and keeping the

same on the other side of 6.2 ft. So, we're not getting any closer to by the structure to the sidelines and we're actually getting meeting the requirements of the front yard set back if it's upper petty lane.

I'm not there yet. We're No, we're not there yet.

Okay.

You're audience. We don't do audience until we're done.

So, essentially that's that's the the crux of the whole project. and we feel that we as much as feasibly possible meet the zoning requirements that could be met on this particular lot. Again, the lot is only 5,300 square ft.

It's 44 by 100 basically. Uh it doesn't there isn't much you can do. It's not a very wide lot and we're not building a very big house here. So, we don't think it's more detrimental to the neighborhood.

Uh we do have one correspondence. We have two actually. There were two. Okay.

You want to read them? I don't have Yeah. Yes. Um, hold on. Do you have them printed at by NTS?

I do.

Oh, you do? No, my my little my my neighbor here has one.

Why don't you go ahead and read them?

Do we or you don't have them?

So, this is Hold on. I have them on my phone.

This is [snorts] all right.

There was an email uh from Amy Gruntner at 131 Petty Lane and um to Maria that says as as neighbor two houses away from an uh Ann and Christopher Chan in Petty Heights, I'd like to register my support for the proposed rebuild of their home at 127A Petty Lane. I have seen their plans, inspect, and renderings. Their new house will be an improvement to the neighborhood. It is thoughtfully

designed and will and will be within the height limitations. I especially appreciate that they'll be upgrading to a denitification septic system as we have done at our property. And as it appears that their rightway along Petty Lane will accommodate two vehicles. I'm grateful that neighbors such as Ann and Chris that neighbors such I'm grateful they're having neighbors such Ann and

Chris are investing in Petty Heights. I urge you to to approve their petition.

The next one is um Marcel Gavon at 100A Petty Lane.

Uh that was a letter addressed to us visav it was handd delivered and by email. I'm writing as an this is going to be a long one. I am writing as an abuter to formally object to the requested zoning relief for the property at 127A Petty Lane Westport. The applicant proposes to alter a legally non-conforming structure by decreasing the side setbacks. They claim this change will not be

substantially more detrimental to the neighborhood. I dis I strongly disagree.

Under Mass General Laws chapter 4A section six in the West zoning bylaws, this position must be denied. The proposed expansion creates a severe irreversible negative impact on my property and the immediate area. The existing structure already de deviates from standard zoning requirements. The expansion is substantially more detrimental in the f for the following reasons. Severe loss of water views and

open space. The reduction of the sideyard directly obstructs a critical established view corridor towards the water from my primary living space. This view is defining characteristics of our neighborhood and the majority component of my property's identity significant demun of the property value. Yeah. Devaluing the property. Eliminating this view corridor and crowding the property line

will negatively impact the market value of my home. This board should protect protest protect established neighbors from being bearing the financial brunt of another's own o overdevelopment.

Loss of visual harmony and privacy.

Bringing the structure closer to the lot line creates an oppressive crowding effect. It eliminates the natural light, air flow, and privacy buffer that side setbacks are legally intended to protect. So I don't think we are actually decreasing anything but the applicant has not demonstrated a unique hardship that justifies pushing a larger structure further into the required buffer zone.

Uh any practical difficulties the applicant may be experiencing or self-created by their expansion plans.

The desire for a larger footprint should not be override the rights of the neighbors the intent of the Westport zoning bylaws. I'll add to that we have an inchband footprint. Um, Westboard has always stated that it's champion the rights of its farmers, fishermen, and working residents. Despite that claim, it continues to support the gentrification of its smaller communities, robbing longtime residents

of beauty of their properties held when they were initially purchased. I will have a full I have been a full-time uh resident of Westport since the mid 1980s. My children attended the school system here. My family supported the community through the small businesses we owned for many years, double bar music. My property has a small corridor of a water view. Approval of the petition allows individuals not invested

in our town to overtake neighborhoods.

The chance have never resided full-time in the Petty Heights neighborhood. I respectfully request that the zoning board of appeals deny the application to protect the character spacing of property values of a neighborhood. Thank you for your time and careful consideration of this matter. And I'll address another one here.

Oh, is there another one? Um, so I didn't see that one.

This is from Yeah, there's another one. Do you have that?

I have a couple.

I have a I have a couple more.

I did forward to everybody, but I know it's kind of complicated because of all the emails that were So, I have one from attorney Philip Borgard in support.

Um, I have one from Susan Benfetto of 127E Petty Lane in support.

I can't.

I know.

Yeah, I think she has a And I have um let's see from Oadia Simha 161 Petty Lane in support.

um was do you have Sue Benito's?

Yeah, I just mentioned that one.

Okay. Yeah. Can we read that one? I think they're she was in support, but then she said, "I'm curious about the 10 uh foot setback as I would love to have a bedroom above ground and thought of adding it on the front side of my measurements don't work with the setback requirements. I didn't realize you could request approval from the zoning board."

Oh, is this that her set back or Yeah. Is that what her issue was that she's not she wouldn't be making it more non No, she said she was in support of it.

She could come in front of here.

Okay. But for her own issue, I think she can't. Excuse me. What was the address of the uh butter that opposed it?

Me 100.

Okay.

Where's 100?

100 right behind it.

[snorts] Where are you?

Jerry Patino is over to the left. I'm I'm on the upper way squarely facing the current home that's there. So there's a very small car which is my view of the river and their property is going to be significantly blocking that. It'll be a wall between myself and move it by five inches. And you're worried about five inches? Well, I think up doesn't we we don't they can go as long as they go um

less than 40 ft then then they are within zoning.

Um okay, but I just wanted to um Oh, but before we do that, we don't really shouldn't be talking to you yet.

We haven't we haven't I haven't opened it up to the to the audience yet. So, why don't we can that for just one second. Okay.

Sure.

We will get to you in a minute.

Um if it's worth my while to stay.

Yes, it is. It definitely is.

Okay.

So, before I open it up to the audience, is there any other questions we have either of uh but okay, I've been there. Okay.

And I was on I think it was the upper petty lane looking down towards the water. Okay. So, you have that view.

Now, I looked at that their house and I looked at the house to the left and I looked to the house to the right and what they're doing is nothing that that person didn't do or that person. And when I the people in the back Yeah. I haven't gotten to that part. So, as I drove around and I looked, it's very much like South Wata Pond.

They started out as cottages and people started expanding except you're just doing it after the other people did.

And I and I want to remind everybody what a finding is.

Finding is the first step by the way in the process. You're going to have to go to the planning board. There's a whole bunch of other steps you need to that you need to get building permits as a you know this is the first step because it's non-conforming property from our lawyer standpoint a finding says that what you're doing is not detrimental to the neighborhood from things like safety

uh traffic flow things like that we are not interested in the architecture of the property that's you know that's that's up to you uh as far as the architecture of the property and as long as it stays within all the zoning requirements, you know, that uh you know, of the town. So, that's the basis for a finding. That's that's that's the only thing that we're here to discuss are the aspects of a finding. So,

any other any other questions of either Sean or or the owner before before we open it up? How long do you um uh think that the construction project will take?

So, we're doing something a little bit unusual. We are um building certain parts of it pre-fabricated. So, the hope is in panelized. So, we're using a company in um New Hampshire that does high performance shells. They're built in panels. So, uh, unlike the block pre-fabricated, it'll come in pieces that are flat, more like an IKEA thing.

And, uh, the hope is that, um, around we'll get the foundation done as a normal foundation, but the actual shell should take two weeks to erect by and how long after that will then it's normal. Then it's normal construction in terms of putting the the systems in. They'll be inside trucks and yeah, it's probably months.

Yeah, probably 6 months after that.

Um, so I I know of this area. It's very small. The houses are tight. There's a lot of 80 year olds in the um neighborhood. Um, and also um my question is is that um those are really small lengths. Um, and uh, just was curious of how long you saw because I know that there was another construction project done that was I think kind of um, it was right on top of

another house. So, whoever's on either side of you is in a construction site.

And I just wondered how long because your neighbors who are in support of you by the way to the right.

Oh yeah. No, they lived in a construction site for a long time, right? The there was another house on the other side of them. Um you know, we're super sensitive to our neighbors in terms of that.

Uh so we do we actually had the construction crew out there uh on Monday try to figure out how to make this work for everybody.

Right. And so one of them is is that I think that what I've heard is that there the 80-year-olds all live on the lane that's in the front of your house down the end and there's ambulances quite a lot.

Right.

So I think that someone had asked you in the neighborhood that if you could stage your construction operation from the rear from the bottom from the Yeah. From the bottom.

Right. And that's the intent that we're doing. That's actually where we have access because as as um Sean mentioned, we're trying to keep the septic that's on the top of the lot. So that's why we're li have limited access there.

The but you're putting a new septic system and that's why you're asking the field is going to stay the same. The the tank will be new. Mhm.

So the field the field where the field is in the front of the house.

The leeching field.

The leeching field.

So the access for construction crew will basically be from the the bottom side bottom because they're keeping the field.

They're just putting the D. They're attaching the D9.

Is the well in on the west side or the east side?

The wells in the front in the on the towards the west.

So that the the other side so that your septic is in the if you will to the east, right? So they're in opposite ends of the line. And so you're putting a denitrification system in there, right?

And you're asking to push it back because I think I heard you say so that you could put this field in appropriately.

Well, Sean wasn't quite completely accurate there. The field's saying the same. We're just pulling the house back to ease the construction because literally the house the septic was put in after we bought the house and it's 2 feet away from the existing house.

Right. So you're So we just move it a little bit down the hill and just to protect the field. Oh.

Yeah. So that they can actually dig because it's too right now the the found the original foundation if I'm there's no foundation.

Well original the original building was put in Exactly. There's no put in before the septic and the septic is really close. So if they would put it exactly if they would start digging a foundation exactly where they are now I would be digging it would be so you don't so technically you didn't need to push it back to put this ditrification. That's what I thought. No, it's more for the construction of the house.

The the d the the denitrification tank actually is actually side and it's over. Yeah, it's right in this area right here.

Yeah.

Digging a foundation would if that close to the leafing field would require variance from the board of health which would also has the same standard of is it a hardship and they would ask the question why can't you slide it down the hill for the second?

Yeah. No, I'm just Yeah, we've actually No. And it will be less construction than having to put a new field in. I mean, then you then you're ripping up small.

That was one of the reasons.

Basically making a big hole on your entire property.

We did go to the board of health already and we they've been over this and we don't actually have to go for a hearing with them because we're not making anything worse in terms of that. We're actually making things better from what we understand.

Any other questions?

I'll open it up to the public. You want to come up? I pretty much have said well why don't you come up to the the microphone name and address good dog 100A Petty Lane and I think that's the upper way is that Am I on the upper way you put it yeah can you get the chart of the properties and if you can point out your property to us that'd be great

this is residence is it jerry yeah so I will be basically right here across the street from Jerry.

So there's my car.

Yep. On the opposite side of the street, right?

Yeah.

Yeah. So it's just u sentimental and uh it's my day-to-day life that would be impacted because But you're about specifically the height.

Specifically my view and and that's mostly um yeah that could be the height.

But if if they're coming in for a variance, I'm going to, you know, speak up because not coming in for a variance.

I understand. Initially, I thought they were going to leave a bigger footprint.

And so at that point, because my view is going to get compromised, I was going to question whether it was necessary because I would like to keep this view I've had from the middle of the 1980s.

And I raised my children there. and we played there and it has it's my life.

It's what I see in the morning. It's where I have my coffee.

Unfortunately, it doesn't m I know unfortunately has no requirement for blocking.

There is no discussion to be had.

I'm saying what I have to say.

I understand your position.

I understand their position. They want to be move into a beautiful home.

Mhm. And so that's that. But I've watched neighborhoods systematically systematically and it brings me great deal of sadness to see where this town's going because I am one of the fishermanmen. I am one of the farmers. I am one of the small business owners. And having people come buy property from the cities and who are very have have that that financial resource. We don't.

And I've heard it said that this board has said, "Well, if they wanted the view, they should have bought it." Well, you know, you're right.

I should have, but I decided to send my kid to college because I couldn't do both.

So, I understand everything is do them inches fit and do and this is the law and I understand all of that and I know I'm very happy for you. you're going to have a beautiful home.

However, my heart breaks to lose that.

And if I didn't stand in front of you and say, "What is this town? What's happening in this town?" Do you understand?

And that's all I have to say.

So, thank you for your time and I wish you great um success with the project.

And um I'm leaving now. Okay.

Thank you for speaking up. Next, Jerry.

Good to see you.

No, you go to the Yes.

name and address.

Jerry Cino 110 C Petty Lane. Uh I also own 110B Petty Lane. Um but I'm asking um for just a clarification going back to uh the chairman's question earlier about whether a variance and so forth. Um I I'm I'm getting a little confused as to what you're actually using as your side setbacks.

Uh I'm I'm talking about how many feet are you using the 10 feet? What we're saying is that it it as long as it is not encroaching more than the current uh house then it does not require rearance.

Okay. Uh bylaw uh you know the 250 ft. I thought I saw that referenced in the material. Uh but I I'm not hearing it talked about tonight.

So that's what I'm concerned about. Uh, not not that I have a concern about it, but I'm just what what side setback are you referring to? The 250 ft average or the 10 ft? Uh, and uh I just think that should be clear when when you make this decision. And then the other uh the other part, not that it you're going to do anything about it here tonight, but I I bought that property in 88 and

those decks weren't there.

Uh uh the these things have been built over time without without consideration of 10 feet or 250 foot average or any of that. But they are what they are. They're there now. And so I'm wondering if we're using the existing u averages with the bylaw that is an exception to the 10 10 foot.

So okay the microphone. So we're not using the average. We did this plan specifically at the request of Ralph and the trans spent a significant amount of money and the average setback just so you you understand of the all the residences and I think there's 17 of them side setback.

Yeah, side setback. The average side setback was 9.1 ft.

The average, oddly enough, the average front yard was 38 feet. And what happens is because it's a 250 foot uh radius, if you took out everything on here, setbacks would drop dramatically down to 2 or 3 feet because there are several houses that are literally inches off the property line on that side. So, we're not using the 250 foot average. What's being considered here or what we're trying to illustrate is what the

existing house is right now and what the future house will be.

Right.

But I think what we're saying is if we actually used that setback, we would actually meet that because on that side, the one that we're talking about that was a little different, right?

Because it's 9.1.8.

You know, if you say the building is 9.8 10.2, it would meet that setback.

It would meet it would meet that setback, but the deck the deck itself would need uh Yeah. deck way off.

Yeah.

I'm sure Jerry's right. They were built, you know, they were just built. No one went for approval. They just got approved.

It was there when we bought the house.

Any other comments from anyone? No.

Sure.

I'm Annie Chan. I'm the the other owner.

Um, and I my I felt terrible that this neighbor felt so strongly about about our um about this construction. And I I'm not sure, but I just and I I I think many of you went by the site, but I would just like to show you.

I have picture of the Okay. What our house what our house is.

And we have owned the house for 20 years. Um, and we couldn't afford until we were done.

That was that was the view I had.

That is the view.

And the other thing though is this is looking the other direction. It's of this lady's house.

This that's looking up the hill from you, right?

So, and and I know that's that's your house.

So, we are we are we are not trying to build a McMansion or do anything. We are very sensitive to our context. back to the microphone so everybody can hear you.

Jerry, you know what this looks like?

Yeah, I think so.

You just did. You're not city slickers who just moved into town and tearing up a thing. You've been there for 20 years and you could finally have the time and the the money to actually fix it.

We're not paying, right?

We're not.

Our children have graduated from college. Yeah.

Yeah.

That's the reason we we actually bought it in 2007 or eight and we couldn't do it.

Yeah.

We we bought it December 20 of 2006.

2006.

But anyway, you haven't I mean I know we we and I went fishing together. So I Yeah. Well, you haven't been down here because it's not suitable for all of you to be down here all the time. And then I drove around the neighborhood and there were a lot of twostory houses in that neighborhood.

Quite a lot.

Like I said, to your or left to your right in the back.

And so you're just going to that whole neighborhood if you do the same.

Thank you.

Yes.

And just one more thing is we we were very sensitive neighbors. We you know I this is part of our business. So we uh sent emails to everybody and all the people that were on the butters list which was 22 I mean such a small neighborhood there's like 20 or 30 people addresses sent them all emails put handd delivered messages to everyone that's how I assume she understood about this asked everybody to come and you know

talk to us sent them draw sent them drawings if they requested drawings uh I I was offered to meet anybody at the house a couple weeks ago and no one wanted to.

So, this was super surprising to us and as Annie said, really kind of heartbreaking in a sense, but um you know, well, you also have to realize, you know, people don't like change.

Yeah.

I just want to clarify uh that uh I am in support of what they want to do. Um, yes, I'm going to lose significant view, but when I bought that property in 1988, I fully knew that it's only a matter of time before the second floors. I myself have had two additions on my house. I will say that when I did the addition so that I would have a garage and a

bedroom, um, I did take into account Ma Mari's uh view and so forth. And I kept my addition back a bit so that she could still see out. But I don't expect everybody to do that. There's not Well, you had the room to do that.

You had the room. You had the room to do it. And I'm sure if you had the room to do it too, you wouldn't be doing what you're doing. just it was inevitable that there's going to be I'm just glad that our fisherman here comes down every week uh uh to go fishing and I'm just glad that they didn't do it 20 years ago.

Okay, you got another 24 years.

At least I had some some degree of uh you know nice view at that time and I still have good view but but uh but I I I was concerned about Mary's area but she has a very narrow uh view down to there and and we think we think we're not sure but we think uh she'll lose a good part of that. But anyway, I just want to be clear that I I'm not opposed to this.

Sean, I I have a question. So, we have all these houses in there, which were all little small shacks. It's just like the what type of thing and many places you and I have seen our whole entire life in this town. So, once we put all these twostory houses up with all these new things, is that hill going to just slide in?

I'm just saying. I don't know what the topography is there, but there's a big hill. And I know when you go down near their house where they're going to have to bring the construction because they said they're going to do it from the back, there's a hill that's pretty significant there.

Correct. And and it is very significant.

In fact, it drops. That's why I show this plan. It does drops from elevation 54 at the top of the lot to elevation 36. That's an 18t drop.

Well, at least they're going to be above where the water's going to rise. You know, well, that's Yeah. Sea level rising.

Yeah. My property eventually is going to be a waterfront because the ones in front of me are going to go because I know when they did some other work on some of those other houses on that upper lane, there was a a a house that had to put in a significant amount of drainage.

So, because we're actually we're actually decreasing the size of the house, they shouldn't be in immediate impact.

Uh during construction, they have to put up sill fence and hay bales and everything to stop any migrating off off locust. Uh this is a significant hill.

How they're going to stage it because it's panled and everything like that.

It's going to be much easier than what you would imagine like a lumber truck pulling up and dropping off a you know.

I just hope the hill supports all this the development.

At least my my side's all I mean it's all rock.

But when did it rock? I don't know.

Granite ledge.

I mean I I do feel bad. I see every night at the beach. I see when you go in to get a building from they're going to look at water runoff.

We're going to work at Yeah, there's going to be there's a lot of things to consider here. Her house is a s I don't want to say significantly higher, but much higher than this particular lot in itself. And I'm not familiar with her view as uh Jerry is for instance, but I think you know with the sliding down the hill and the elevation of the house, granted it is a two-story house now.

Mhm.

All right. It will be higher, 16 ft higher. I'm not sure how much view is lost.

You slid down. You slid it down over that that huge slope, though. Yeah. So, it's it's not going to be a wash by any stretch. You're probably losing four feet, you're picking up 16, you know, it's so it's not a zero for zero type thing.

Uh I I do feel bad and and this is what happens in every community, especially in other community uh other communities that are along the river. You we've seen some of the houses that basically to get out of the flood zone, they have to jack them up 16 feet, right?

And I feel really bad for the guy just behind him because that's just the and there's nothing the applicant can do.

And it's nothing we can do either because that's not even in our purview.

It had to be ted up.

Unfortunately, it's the way of the world. And uh we've all seen it too often. But I think I think I mean I've been in contact with Chris over the last couple of months trying to get everything as perfect as possible to meet the neighbors requirements and everything we can do. It's just there's only so much you can do with a lot of 5,300 square feet.

Yep.

Any any other questions?

[snorts] If not, I'll entertain a motion to close the hearing.

Second.

I didn't I just Oh, I make a motion. So move.

Second. All in favor? It's been a long day.

I I Okay.

All again, what that means is now we will we will deliberate. Uh we won't get any more input from uh from the audience.

We we can't ask a question to clarify, but I think this is pretty straightforward. I mean, they're not make they're not violating any zoning requirements. And for a finding, all we need to do is say whether it impacts safety or traffic, it's going to be the same. I mean, it's none of that footprint.

You know, it's going to increase the property value. I mean, everybody's taxes will go up.

All right. you know, somebody in back is going to be but that's the you know hate to say but that's anybody with a in a single family I mean a single floor house can build it into a second story.

I know that's just how zoning works. You know you know you hate to say you're blocking somebody's view but you know zoning doesn't allow for that does not have a requirement for that.

And I've got trees blocking my view and I can't take them to the zoning board because you they're not subject to rules.

Well, also just I just, you know, concerned about this neighborhood has had a lot of construction the construction basically, right? and and and I assume that when they go to the to the uh they get a building permit uh you know that's also things that they're going to have to look at to say you know you know usually they'll talk about hours of that you can that you can actually work you know all

those kinds of things because those roads are pretty small so getting big trucks down there isn't going to be isn't going to be really easy but that's not our problem I know and I hate to push it off to somebody else but that's not what I'm finding building supply a Any other totally agree?

Good.

So, I'll make a motion to grant the petition of uh uh Alan M.

Chang and Christopher T. Chang for the construction of a two-bedroom single family dwelling with siteback being approved shall not substantially be more detrimental than existing non-conforming use to the neighborhood as mandated by zoning bile article 5 section 7.7.2 to subject to the uh including the the plans as provided uh to the board.

So a motion I have a second second uh discussion.

No discussion. All in favor say I.

I.

I oppose. No. It's unanimous. Uh there's a 20-day uh wait period. So don't start demolishing your house quite yet. 20 days.

I'm risking it.

And I hope it turns out well for you.

Thank you. I really appreciate your thoughtful uh deliberation.

You going to get the foundation in before winter?

That's the idea.

Yeah, that's the idea.

By the way, Chris was also a member of the zoning board of appeals in Cambridge.

Yeah. Were you?

Yeah.

But I let him do it because they told me to get someone localized.

But you were right. That drawing was a little confusing and and you know I don't know I wanted to be transparent and tell you what the building was as well as the deck even though the deck was the overriding factor because that's the closest piece right so we just did both so you know but you caught it right away you you could see I appreciate that you know people sometimes just glance over it now

yeah and Jerry thank you I appreciate it for all the help he's been you know on my neighbor and been telling me about how everything would So, thank you very much, Jerry. Really appreciate it.

Thanks everybody.

Good luck.

Uh, next order of business is approval of meeting minutes [snorts] June 10, 2026.

Uh, Mar has has provided us with the minutes. Uh, I make a motion to approve the meeting minutes for June 10, 2026.

Do I have a second?

All in favor say I.

I. No.

Okay. Um, we have on the agenda an election of officers.

I'm tempted right now to postpone that and I and I'd like to discuss it before I even ask that. [snorts] As you know, Maria is is is leaving us.

[snorts] uh she is why so we are we are going to be in with without a uh a zoning administrator for some period of time now Jerry and I have been through this I just want to say one thing on that subject uh it's been a pleasure and a joy actually with the help that Maria has provided to applicants in this town to do appear in front of the board I

know she probably doesn't think it's a joy but but I we really appreciate what she has done So, I want to thank her.

And most people don't really recognize how much she actually does.

And I went to the to the select board and and tried to tell them how this the state we're going to be in.

Anyway, Jerry and I have been through this once before. Took over a year to get a uh a replacement.

Um and that was only because she happened to become available, right? She she had done it once before right now.

And what that meant was that Jerry and I actually did the work did all the work for [snorts] you know, for all the preparation, all the whatever. And I know, and I'm I'm sure Jerry will agree, I'm not doing it again. And her job is a lot of work. And I mean, and and to be done correctly requires somebody, you know, with with her experience and whatever. Um, so what I'm

getting at is if this gets prolonged, I'm I what I told the select board was we will conduct no business without a zoning administrator.

Y I motion.

Yeah, I do. Now what? Now so moved.

We already have a um uh zoning hearing scheduled for September. She will not be here for No, it's not scheduled yet. He's waiting until she I'm still waiting for paperwork. I They're waiting.

So there's nothing.

If there is All I'm saying is you have a you you don't you have a petition?

No.

No. I don't It was the committee.

Okay. If you don't have a petition by the time you leave, then there will be no petition. If there is a petition when you leave and you schedule something can I this is important because it's it it's it's how we're going to run business without without the a zoning administrator. We're not.

My plan is if there is a petition in place, the only thing that I believe we can do is attend the meeting and continue it with no with no discussion because we will not have a zoning administrator to then write at the decision and and do all of those kind of things.

But even before that, somebody's got to take the petition in.

Well, they've got to do all the butter things.

But what I said was before we don't go to me.

What I said was if we have a petition and a schedule. So if Maria gets one in this week and assigns and asks us all, can you come here on September 23rd? And we say, yep, we can come here 23rd. and then she leaves August 31st, then we will hold the meeting on the 23rd, of which case we will only just continue it unless a new administrator is is selected. If if on the other hand any

petition after that, in other words, when Maria is gone, if we do not have a zoning administrator, then we can't schedule the we can't do the work of of uh you know, getting all the abutters involved, getting, you know, all the work that she does to get ready for a hearing can't be done because I'm not going to do it.

Jerry's not going to do it. I don't think Cynthia is going to do it. I mean, none of us are going to do it. It's a lot of work and there's a lot of things you have to understand to do it correctly.

And if you do it wrong, then you're subject to legal issues anyway. So that's that's my philosophy and I just want to understand how everybody else feels about it.

Well, we've talked and that's my philosophy.

I feel the same as you.

I agree with regard to the legal issues.

You really need to have the proper notifications, right? And what happens though is that everything that gets if if we can't meet our deadline things get approved and that is why if we don't have the first hearing in 65 days gets approved if we don't have it's 100 days to make a decision.

Yeah I when you when you're done I have a okay maybe easier. So anyway, uh any other the well the another question that's come up in my mind is uh when we have uh sought uh secretarial help in the past and then the uh now call the zoning administrator uh we advertised that we did interviews.

Yes.

Okay. Uh I've not been called to be a part of anything to do with selecting.

So I'm just wondering what is the status of the search?

No one's applying this, right? Nobody.

I asked Chris.

Yeah, that's what I'm saying. So now what happens?

And Roger and I met with It's No, it's posted. And Roger and I didn't meet with Chris and we did ask to be involved. I said obviously it's his perview to who he hires because we we're just a volunteer board but we would like at least to be able to speak with the individual who he thinks maybe is good for the job.

He kind of blew us off.

Right.

But again there are no applicants at the moment.

I might have. So, so you're saying I want to be clear now that the uh town administrator has indicated basically that that he or someone select board or whatever will select the person and we will not have a part in that.

Well, he he's we had asked to be a part of it. He didn't really give me a warm fuzzy feeling that he will. No, we I actually asked him if we could but I you know we'd like to we like to interview and he was the Okay.

It wasn't wasn't a very warm reception on that.

No.

So if I could Oh, okay. Sorry. If I could just say something. Um you say you're going to stay?

Yeah.

No.

Sorry.

I'm meeting with Chris next week um to just go over anything that's pending just to give him an idea of what's I mean I will hopefully file the two decisions from tonight either on or before obviously within the two weeks that they're due.

So hopefully next week sometime but either way um I'm going to let them know basically we have nothing current at least not right now. uh and anything that does get filed while I'm here obviously I will process accordingly.

Now the board does not have the responsibility I don't think to be processing sending out letters publishing and everything else that goes with it. That will be up to the town administrator to decide what's going to happen with that.

So if anything comes in between now and the time I leave August 31st then that will be put on his desk and then he can decide who's going to take care of it.

So the board will be notified if there is something as to the next hearing date if there is one and then I'm just you do whatever you need to do at that point.

No, they're just the com and then I'm just glad we didn't have to continue any of today's hearings because that would put a real monkey wrench in That's what I was trying to because if we continued it into September, which is only a few weeks away.

Yes, it is.

Then as far as I'm concerned, we wouldn't I wouldn't hold the hearing.

So, and then it would have been approved anyway.

There would have been nobody to write the decision and it would have been approved anyway.

Right.

Yeah. So, either he's going to have to find someone to do it or he will do it or I don't know. That's entirely up to him.

And also but I but I told them and I told the select board.

No, I as chair I will not hold a hearing without a without without a zoning administrator in place.

Yeah.

And that doesn't mean patchworking somebody doing part of your job somebody else. They need to they need to hire a zoning administrator to do that work in in order for us to to uh uh you know to actually do our work.

Yeah.

And and that's the reason why I'm thinking that maybe we want to hold off again hold officers until we actually get the next zone in administrator.

Yeah. Because if this goes on for a long period of time, you know, I've only been doing this for 15 years, so I may just call it a day because I'm not going to go through we what Jerry and I did the last time was just was it was a lot of work and I, you know, I don't think either one of us don't want to do that again.

I remember that Barbara was the one that took notes and I had to go back a couple of years all the videos of all the hearings and do all the minutes.

Yeah.

Thank you. Oh, no, no, it's not.

And then filing everything and getting I mean I mean that but I'm just I'm just saying thank you.

So, uh that was my comment. Does anybody I mean everybody think that we should do um today?

No, I think it's best to keep us set.

Yeah, just put it off until we until at least we know where everything is going because then it's I mean any and if then and if we do have any communication between this administrator [clears throat] and the select board then at least they know who who's who and it's ready. Yeah.

And when the election of officers is there's no schedule for that. We we try to do it after uh after July when you know when everything is settled as far as the membership goes but because of because of like the the 40B we didn't want to change leadership in the middle so we waited so we we we we decide on electing office when it fits our schedule the most so that it does doesn't interrupt the flow

of our of our uh processes. the the select board hasn't even announced that we need another alternate, but I wouldn't even bother that that it's it's been on there. It's on it's it's it's listed.

Oh, is it finally listed?

Well, we haven't heard any.

So, anyway, but again, it's let's not I know a young woman who may be interested and she's a lawyer, but we got no that's a majority. There's a rule against that. But um I think it's best just not getting any move out because also so not only will everything get just approved if we don't comply with the timings that are required. If we just all decided to resign and there was

no zoning board, the planning board has to step in our shoes, which in one respect I really love to see that for a while.

Yeah.

Okay. Uh any other business?

Yeah, there is. Okay.

You have one more item on the agenda and that's the request for comment by planning board regarding 435 Old Harbor Road.

Oh yes. Uh that's one. You're right. I got that and I and they sent it to me and I said don't send it to me because I don't do that work.

You send it to our zoning administrator and then she sent it to us.

Yeah. So I mean if you have no comment that's fine. If you have a comment that's fine.

I don't have an account.

We all know where this why why this is happening. So yeah. Yes. Right. No comment.

See I make a motion to adjourn the meeting.

I guess all in favor I Kevin I